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Author Topic: So that's it then?  (Read 10476 times)

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Offline Gregg

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #195 on: September 11, 2017, 11:40:27 PM »
Soft southern midget.  ;D
Hold a chicken in the air stick a deck chair up your nose, buy a jumbo jet and then bury all your clothes..........\":D\"

Offline eddief

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #196 on: September 12, 2017, 12:09:14 AM »
Sez you...  Just jealous I reckon!  ;D
985 posts on last forum - so I get the \'hallowed 1000\' for just 15 on this one (yippee!)

Offline StAthan lecky

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #197 on: September 12, 2017, 11:13:22 AM »
My company has invested significantly more money in 558 than any other entity.  We love her & want to see the whole story played out to a happy ending.  But I appreciate the journey to that place is beyond the imagination & trust of some - just like the return to flight was I suppose..?  And things happened along the way that did not go to plan - but that's also rather 'normal' in the real world.  Get used to it - life is not a rehearsal: Think fast & do the right thing.

I do not like reading these threads but I rather need to - so I can see what flack might be in waiting & also keep cross-checking my own sense of reality.

I think there is a good chance that the hangar will happen & things will turn for the better (which is why we are still supporting the project) but I honestly can't say that is a certainty. 

But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.
Hi Eddie,we have never met but I along with hundreds if not thousands of Club members and supporters are so grateful to you and your company for the financial support that enabled 558's return to flight and the continuing support during her flying life and now in retirement.You are not in any way responsible for the current situation so no personal attacks will ever come your way! all that those that care about 558 want is some honesty from the Trust and more importantly Transparency,nothing flows from the Trust other than what is published on the Home page of this website,none of the questions posed on this forum by many concerned people are ever answered leading to frustration and mud slinging !.A polite reminder to the Trust,558 is supposed to be "The Peoples Vulcan" and is a charitable institution so please answer our valid questions as posted at the beginning of this thread and on others and then maybe the mud slinging will stop.

Mike
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Offline CLIFFORD

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #198 on: September 12, 2017, 01:21:38 PM »
I agree with Eddie all the way, but would like more information from the trust.

Offline minty4371

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #199 on: September 12, 2017, 02:46:13 PM »
I thought the next lot of names would go onto a plaque on a wall. (I think I read that in a distant newsletter, or did I dream it).  Or has that changed due to them no longer having a hangar to put the aircraft in.  Will anyone go and see XH558 in her new hangar?
Names on Bomb Bay Doors are OK, the 'grafitti' by Jacqui & Dee under the wing is OK, but not to spoil the appearance of the camouflage of the aircraft for a few pounds to have your name on the aircraft.  (Only my opinion).
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Offline wcg

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #200 on: September 13, 2017, 01:37:20 PM »
But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.
Well, as nobody else wants to stick their head above the parapet, I will.
No toy-throwing, but some simple questions based on concerns which have been voiced both on this forum and others , if you're prepared to answer them....

You'll no doubt have seen that one of the major issues people both on this forum & others have revolves around the wage bill in the most recent accounts.

Do you have any concerns or reservations about the fact that they retained so many staff for over a year after XH558 stopped flying ?

Do you have any concerns or reservations about the fact that as a result of this the wage bill accounted for over a third of the overall annual income for that time period ?

Do you have any concerns or reservations regarding the future of various post-flight plans VTST had - as well as the education aspect - given that the core engineering staff are no longer employed and - if Sam is correct - are highly unlikely to return in the future ?

Do you have any concerns or reservations regarding the breakdown of people retained on full-time contracts....in particular, the number of managers ( 6, if the list Sam posted is accurate ) ?

Edited to add a couple more questions in view of recent posts on this forum and UKAR....

Do you have any concerns or reservations regarding the current valuation of XH558 compared to that of a similar airframe XL426 ?

Given the claims about there being great crested newts at the location of the planned new hangar, do you have any concerns or reservations about it's viability, the timeframe involved and the costs involved ?

Feel free to tell me to jog on, if you'd rather not answer.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 02:58:07 PM by wcg »
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Offline Zero One

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #201 on: September 14, 2017, 07:54:58 AM »
Clive
Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't these accounts   for year end 2016 prior to the removal from hangar and downsizing of staff?
Didn't I read somewhere that Robert was now on part time, Mr Trotter, believe is a consultant also on part time? 

Will have to go back and see Sam's list of staff as I missed it..... Have now found it, am amazed more than I ever thought..... OMG

I wonder how many and who they are, are still on full time contracts?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:16:25 AM by Zero One »
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Offline sickbag_andy

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #202 on: September 14, 2017, 08:20:56 AM »
Clive
Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't hese accounts   for year end 2016 prior to the removal from hangar and downsizing of staff?
Didn't I read somewhere that Robert was now on part time, Mr Trotter, believe is a consultant also on part time? 
Will have to go back and see Sam's list of staff as I missed it..... Have now found it, am amazed more than I ever thought..... OMG

They are Denis but those changes you quoted weren't until around March this year so that cash drain continued for at least 5 months after the closing date of those accounts, I picked that up in my (rather lengthy) post last evening with an approximation of the amount it cost before the cuts. From memory annual cost for hangar £82K, salaries around £800k so a bit less than half of £880k say £400k more before the downsize and BITS initiative.

EDIT: sorry Denis, I should have checked - the staff costs were £854k for the year ending Oct 2016, so that total should be £936k (plus costs for Hinckley which also went with the cuts). And in fact there was probably rent and some of those salaries and rent paid up until at least the end of April so that £400k I estimated is likely to be nearer £470k. OUCH!

To save me looking back can anyone remember the dates when Hinckley closed and Hangar 3 contract terminated pls?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:47:37 AM by sickbag_andy »
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Offline wcg

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #203 on: September 14, 2017, 08:32:45 AM »
Denis,
From Sam's posts & the interview Dr Pleming did with DanO' on UKAR ( still on the podcast list there if anyone wants to listen to it )...
Dr Pleming, Michael Trotter, Ian Straw, Ian Homer, Kevin Stone & Rick Lee were/are all retained on part-time contracts ( Taff & Rick on 'zero-hour' contracts, don't know about the others )

The webstore manager, his assistant, the admin manager, her assistant, the remote stock sales manager, his assistant, the admin manager at Doncaster, his assistant, the facilities manager and the Engineering director were/are apparently all retained on full-time contracts.

Of the 14 made redundant, apparently one was reinstated ( the webstore assistant....unless they now employ 2 webstore assistants ? )

Yes, the financial part of the accounts only cover up until October 2016, but that doesn't negate the fact that the wage bill for a year after XH558 stopped flying amounted to £3/4 million and - more importantly - devoured 1/3rd of the annual income ( said income being down by some 50% or so compared to 2015 )

Unless I'm mistaken, Dr Pleming did admit ( in his interview with DanO' ) that they should have reduced the number of employees far sooner than they did.
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Offline Zero One

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #204 on: September 14, 2017, 09:22:33 AM »
Thanx Clive and Andy
Hadn't realised how bad their situation has got, been out of it for 8 yrs, wouldn't have happened if a certain red head had still controlled the financies.
She would not have let it get as bad as this
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:24:32 AM by Zero One »
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Offline minty4371

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #205 on: September 14, 2017, 11:53:00 AM »
Just seen this on the Vulcan XH558's Facebook page.

"Just received the latest guardian news letter and I see that the proposed site for the new hangar has great crested newts won't that now cause significant problems getting planning permission?"
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Offline wcg

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #206 on: September 14, 2017, 12:18:29 PM »
Ooops !!  :))

Yep, fun and games if they've got them there.
From similar experience where I used to work, lots of delays & the additional expense of feasibility studies to get them relocated......then once they are relocated, more delays to ensure no more of them turn up.
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Offline minty4371

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #207 on: September 14, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »
"Already has caused delays on other construction at airport they are all over the place down there."
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Offline sickbag_andy

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #208 on: September 14, 2017, 12:26:29 PM »
Ooops !!  :))

Yep, fun and games if they've got them there.
From similar experience where I used to work, lots of delays & the additional expense of feasibility studies to get them relocated......then once they are relocated, more delays to ensure no more of them turn up.

that sums it up very well, for the authorised great crested newt guardians it was a licence to print money, I used to have them on sites regularly. As Clive says once you have moved them you then have to stop them coming back usually with newt proof fencing (I joke not!) around excavations etc.

The craziest thing about this is that they are everywhere in the UK so hardly endangered but Europe wide they are scarce in places (maybe the French eat them) so that they are protected under EU law - a bit like illegal immigrants so the whole of the EU is meant to protect them from harm regardless of how common they are in that particular country!
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Offline wcg

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #209 on: September 14, 2017, 02:50:22 PM »
If any of you frequent UKAR, you may note the recent discussion on there concerning the valuation of XH558 compared to XL426
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