Author Topic: Final Flight  (Read 26324 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scampton61

  • Club Member
  • Serious User
  • *****
  • Posts: 352
    • View Profile
    • http://www.underthefloor.co.uk
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2015, 12:03:39 PM »
I have said before that after modifications 2222,2429,2430 & 2221, XH558's airframe  was certified by AVRO  for many more hours of flight than the 346 hrs XH558 completed post restoration. Yet we keep being told that the trust would be 'flying into the unknown'.

That's because it would have been 'into the unknown'. Doesn't matter how many theoretical hours Avro certified, that was a long, long time ago and the one thing the Fatigue Test Specimen couldn't simulate or predict was the effect of age and corrosion on the airframe. The end has been forced on us sooner that most would like, but I understand the reasoning.

Quote
Rolls Royce certified the Olympus for 2000 flying hours when they were overhauled..then inexplicably changed this to 1200 cycles that left the engines near their end of their working life after just a few hundred hours...

Not inexplicable at all. 2,000 hours were certified in RAF service, when the engines would have been straight back on an aircraft after overhaul. 558's engines had been in storage for over 20 years, scarcely any wonder RR were cautious, over cautious maybe but again understandable.

Offline Rover3500

  • phpBB Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 23
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2015, 09:11:02 PM »

That's because it would have been 'into the unknown'. Doesn't matter how many theoretical hours Avro certified, that was a long, long time ago and the one thing the Fatigue Test Specimen couldn't simulate or predict was the effect of age and corrosion on the airframe. The end has been forced on us sooner that most would like, but I understand the reasoning.

But are we really  'going into the unknown' anymore than back in 2007 when XH558 had covered 8% more flying hours than any other Vulcan and had not flown for over 13 years?. It still remains unclear why the line has been drawn here after such a costly, comprehensive  and skilful restoration.

The advanced  'age' of the Vulcan  airframe seems to be a powerful and well used  argument  but I know of no mechanism by which age alone can have any effect on aircraft strength and durability . The CAA routinely accept FI limits set by fatigue test specimens  for many aircraft of advanced age - if ageing alone had any significant effect on safety, FI  limits would be revised down for age?.

Stress corrosion cracking is another matter and is of course age related. A combination  of factors  regarding susceptible  materials, operating environment and mechanical stress have to be met for it to be a concern . As far as I know, no detailed assessment of the likelihood of SCC occurring to XH558 has been made to justify the decision to end flight.

It's been reported that back in 2007 the  Vulcan was   'deskinned – the magnesium alloy panels removed – so that every vital part inside could be meticulously inspected. If it  was found that the  aircraft’s main spars – the skeleton of the airframe – had proven to be cracked or badly corroded, all this work would have been in vain. Thankfully, only a very small section of one spar was found to be affected. That tiny part was carefully removed'.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151023-how-the-cold-war-vulcan-bomber-flew-again

It's hard to envisage that after just 346 hrs of fair weather flight  with careful storage and maintenance , the airframe has lapsed from  into unsafe territory because of corrosion.

Not inexplicable at all. 2,000 hours were certified in RAF service, when the engines would have been straight back on an aircraft after overhaul. 558's engines had been in storage for over 20 years, scarcely any wonder RR were cautious, over cautious maybe but again understandable.
[/quote]

I can only comment on the information in the public domain but I understand the engines were correctly stored with silica gel bags etc. so it seems hard to understand the rationale on this. I know of no mechanism whereby steel and titanium alloys can degrade in a  reasonably warm and dry environment.
I understand that the engines were inspected   and found to be free from significant corrosion which would seem to confirm that good storage practices had been adhered to.




Offline PA28

  • Administrator
  • Serious User
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2015, 10:05:22 AM »
A post especially for Andy.

XH558 will be able to be seen in HD throughout the country, tonight, 7.30pm BBC1 HD - (HD ONLY)

It is a regional 'Inside-Out' programme, but the regions take it in turn to broadcast on the HD channel.  This is the Leeds based 'Look North' team who have been really supportive.

(Wonder how that all got organised..... ?????  ;-)

We will be posting across social media later to advise supporters and I'm sure viewing figures (and exposure of XH558) will be healthier as a result!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 10:08:24 AM by PA28 »

Offline StAthan lecky

  • Club Member
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1974
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2015, 02:58:35 PM »
A post especially for Andy.

XH558 will be able to be seen in HD throughout the country, tonight, 7.30pm BBC1 HD - (HD ONLY)

It is a regional 'Inside-Out' programme, but the regions take it in turn to broadcast on the HD channel.  This is the Leeds based 'Look North' team who have been really supportive.

(Wonder how that all got organised..... ?????  ;-)

We will be posting across social media later to advise supporters and I'm sure viewing figures (and exposure of XH558) will be healthier as a result!

No doubt by you Ian,but to be fair it is your job  !
1000+ Posts and not a Newbie

Freddie Mercury and Queen Will Live Forever

Another "Kind Of Magic"

Offline MrTim

  • Global Moderator
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1702
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2015, 04:40:01 PM »
I thought you'd left us Mike ;) ;D :o
I'm masking my indifference with a veneer of detachment

Offline planenut

  • Club Member
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 2874
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2015, 05:09:17 PM »

No doubt by you Ian,but to be fair it is your job  !

Seems like you are only being fair to yourself with that sort of remark.
I said "no more passwords" and look what happened!

Offline hairrig

  • Club Member
  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2015, 05:57:00 PM »

http://www.lincolnshireecho.co.uk/Vulcan-s-final-flight-confirmed-15-minutes-long/story-28069409-detail/story.html

http://www.examiner.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/vulcan-xh558-farewell-tour-cold-10346895

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/last-airworthy-avro-vulcan-takes-10349455

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1224833/Vulcan-bomber-makes-final-flight-Doncaster-Airport.html

http://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/strike-bombers-northrop-to-build-us-latest-uk-veteran-takes-a-bow

http://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/news/local/video-sad-farewell-to-the-vulcan-1-7541515

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/happy-landings-as-giant-of-the-skies-bows-out-34150575.html

http://home.bt.com/news/news-extra/the-last-flying-vulcan-bomber-has-taken-to-the-skies-for-a-poignant-final-flight-11364013439584

https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.gizmodo.in/science/Watch-the-Last-Flight-of-a-Legendary-British-Bomber-Plane/articleshow/49588714.cms&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoTNTA5MjAzMjI5NDgwOTI1MzcyNzIcZmU5NjFkNzRiOGU3OGIyMTpjby51azplbjpHQg&usg=AFQjCNG0Sf2_RSQm4sRhlHi9P7aRwfLrgQ

http://www.harboroughmail.co.uk/news/mail-news/harborough-woman-who-loved-this-beautiful-vulcan-1-7037978

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/11930957/Stunning-photographs-of-Vulcan-bomber-XH558-flying-over-Beachy-Head.html

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/last-vulcan-bomber-become-living-10309081

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-34652152

I could find more .....

Sad picture on the home.bt.com page with the caption "As Vulcan-lovers gathered on a nearby vantage point".

Hope people don't get the wrong impression of the Vulcan Effect from that!

Wonder what a similar view will be like on the 11th and 12th with the well in advance notice of the AN225 arrival and departure?

Offline sickbag_andy

  • Club Member
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • http://www.superguppy.co.uk
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2015, 08:45:11 AM »
A post especially for Andy.

XH558 will be able to be seen in HD throughout the country, tonight, 7.30pm BBC1 HD - (HD ONLY)

It is a regional 'Inside-Out' programme, but the regions take it in turn to broadcast on the HD channel.  This is the Leeds based 'Look North' team who have been really supportive.

(Wonder how that all got organised..... ?????  ;-)

We will be posting across social media later to advise supporters and I'm sure viewing figures (and exposure of XH558) will be healthier as a result!

thanks Ian, didn't see this yesterday so I've missed it but will search i.players later to see if it's available.


Andy (hairrig) - re the An.225 - as you know I'm planning to go next Wednesday from Essex with an overnight stay for the departure next day as I haven't seen in since 1990 so there may be quite a bit of interest from like minded people although it has been to East Midlands and Manchester over the last year or two so it does drop into the UK from time to time. LR weather forecast looks reasonable at present so fingers crossed. (thanks for info re hotel BTW).
confacimus volatemum

the proud owner of the only Martin Withers signed sickbag of 558 flight vintage IN THE WORLD!

Offline dee

  • Global Moderator
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 4426
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2015, 01:40:05 PM »
A post especially for Andy.

XH558 will be able to be seen in HD throughout the country, tonight, 7.30pm BBC1 HD - (HD ONLY)

It is a regional 'Inside-Out' programme, but the regions take it in turn to broadcast on the HD channel.  This is the Leeds based 'Look North' team who have been really supportive.

(Wonder how that all got organised..... ?????  ;-)

We will be posting across social media later to advise supporters and I'm sure viewing figures (and exposure of XH558) will be healthier as a result!

thanks Ian, didn't see this yesterday so I've missed it but will search i.players later to see if it's available.


Andy (hairrig) - re the An.225 - as you know I'm planning to go next Wednesday from Essex with an overnight stay for the departure next day as I haven't seen in since 1990 so there may be quite a bit of interest from like minded people although it has been to East Midlands and Manchester over the last year or two so it does drop into the UK from time to time. LR weather forecast looks reasonable at present so fingers crossed. (thanks for info re hotel BTW).

Can recommend the Ramada Andy
That huge triangle against the sky like some monstrous angel trailing dark clouds of glory

Offline Vulcanatic

  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 97
  • Gender: Male
  • Vulcan Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2015, 02:06:12 PM »
Re. An.225

Do you think they used Howard Hughes as their conceptual & design consultant?


#SprooseGooski
Chris

Offline PaulH2015

  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 148
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2015, 03:13:29 PM »

XH558 will be able to be seen in HD throughout the country, tonight, 7.30pm BBC1 HD - (HD ONLY)

It is a regional 'Inside-Out' programme, but the regions take it in turn to broadcast on the HD channel.  This is the Leeds based 'Look North' team who have been really supportive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=hTTh0WT3ZHM

Offline sickbag_andy

  • Club Member
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • http://www.superguppy.co.uk
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2015, 04:58:24 PM »
Re. An.225

Do you think they used Howard Hughes as their conceptual & design consultant?


#SprooseGooski

i wonder - lovely beast isn't it, looks far better than the An124 with those twin tails
confacimus volatemum

the proud owner of the only Martin Withers signed sickbag of 558 flight vintage IN THE WORLD!

Offline Vulcanatic

  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 97
  • Gender: Male
  • Vulcan Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2015, 08:12:33 PM »
i wonder - lovely beast isn't it, looks far better than the An124 with those twin tails

Certainly impressive, although lovely isn't the first thought to enter my head.
Chris

Offline Vulcanatic

  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 97
  • Gender: Male
  • Vulcan Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2015, 08:56:58 PM »
There is a postal mailing on all this with the printers.... Online is set to start next week, just ahead of its arrival and it looks like some very positive news in other areas might just be about to break.

I can say no more on the matter right now, but be assured your concerns 'on the bigger picture' are being addressed and the future looks bright (not orange), but Delta inspirational shaped and one or two other things .... and NO, NOT CONCORDE!!

"Delta inspirational shaped" - so is that Delta or Delta-esque?

We know it's not going to be XH558, XL426 or XM655 as, even if a hugely expensive airframe restoration were carried out, there aren't any Olympus about with any life left in them and just sorting that small fact out would cost £100M+.

If it is Delta rather than Delta-esque, my money would be on Mirage or Javelin.
Either would be good although my preference would be with Javelin.
Chris

Offline hairrig

  • Club Member
  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Final Flight
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2015, 09:53:55 PM »

Andy (hairrig) - re the An.225 - as you know I'm planning to go next Wednesday from Essex with an overnight stay for the departure next day as I haven't seen in since 1990 so there may be quite a bit of interest from like minded people although it has been to East Midlands and Manchester over the last year or two so it does drop into the UK from time to time. LR weather forecast looks reasonable at present so fingers crossed. (thanks for info re hotel BTW).

Hope the airport doesn't go into lockdown if too many people turn up >:D