Vulcan To The Sky - Forums

XH558 Operations => Engineering => Topic started by: CLIFFORD on January 17, 2017, 04:09:21 PM

Title: hanger move
Post by: CLIFFORD on January 17, 2017, 04:09:21 PM
will it be possible to take photos of the move as it happens so we can ALL feel involved, not just the aeroplanes but the building work as well, living hundreds of miles away some of us feel cut off.
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: dee on January 17, 2017, 07:43:58 PM
What a brilliant idea Cliff!!
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: Nickolas on January 18, 2017, 08:58:51 PM
They could stick a time lapse feed in. the least they could do at DRH.
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: PaulH2015 on January 19, 2017, 09:06:05 AM
What's more concerning is this mornings newsletter.  £200k needing to be raised over two months just to put her into storage and 'to survive' seems a huge amount to basically tow her and her bits and pieces from one hanger to another.  Are there debts that need paying off?

I'm also wondering just what the 'temporary storage facility' actually comprises.  It says 'A hangar is essential for protecting XH558 from the weather and providing an environment for maintenance to RAF standards.' and 'At the end of January, she will be towed out and placed under cover in storage' without saying just what that under cover storage actually comprises.  The word 'hanger' only seems to be applied to the present home, and a yet-to-be-built interim hanger.

The letter mentions the £200k includes 'costs associated with finalising plans for the new, purpose-built hangar' - is that the interim hanger?  Or the ETNA hanger?  What are the likely costs of building the interim hanger?  If the tours and events are to cease until the interim hanger is up and running will that hanger have to be funded totally through donations?
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: Rick Steer on January 19, 2017, 09:29:57 AM
Paul,

I agree - I felt a mixture of anger and disbelief when I received the e-mail yesterday. I feel so sorry for those that have been made redundant. Just where has it all gone so wrong? Why was a lease extension not negotiated on our current hanger when we stopped flying?

I'm really disappointed to be honest. we have had no public fast taxi runs as we were promised, and now we have now secure home either. I have to ask if Doncaster really is the right place for her in the future? £200K is a massive amount to raise for an essentially static airframe that no-one is going to be able to visit or see for the foreseeable future.

Although unpalatable to most, has the time come to re-assess Doncaster? Is there even the remotest possibility of securing approval for a one off ferry flight to a home which is more accommodating of public visits and fast taxi runs? 2 obvious candidates are already being mentioned all over social media. I know it is racking up the past, but I honestly fear for her future if we stay at Doncaster.....I just cannot see how we can afford to proceed on the basis of the sums being talked about - we now only have 8 paid employees, so just what is £200K going to be spent on? There need to be a lot more transparency in my opinion

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but to me this feels like the beginning of the end.....
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: PhillyJ on January 19, 2017, 10:07:36 AM
Agree with both of the above posts, not sure what to think other than shock, anger and disappointment. My heart goes out to those who have lost their jobs after spending so much time and effort in keeping her in the tip top shape that she is in, social media is rife with crap, claims and counter claims...I do not pretend to be an expert in these matters but at the time was surprised that Doncaster was chosen as her final resting place. To me it just seems that all the promises from the Airport owners are being reneged on and XH558 is being held hostage to ransom as she cannot fly out.

Happy to be put in my place and my fears put to rest by those that know better.
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: tabby on January 19, 2017, 11:29:25 AM
I also agree with the above posts expressed more eloquently than I am able.

Some years ago the powers that be allowed a one off ferry flight of a Lightning from Shawbury to Binbrook ..............

Tabby
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: Rick Steer on January 19, 2017, 01:07:29 PM
Tabby,

Thanks for that information - I thought the requirements for a one-off ferry flight were somewhat different to a full permit to fly. I believe additional restrictions can be put in place as a condition to ferry - for example, keep undercarriage locked down, bypass populated areas with pre-agreed flight path etc.

Given she has been kept serviceable, I would be hopeful this could be arranged. To me it is very obvious that, for whatever reason, Doncaster is not working out in the way anyone hoped or expected, and so drastic action is needed to safeguard her future, and get ourselves back on an even keel. Funding for a hanger will presumably be a similar cost wherever it is built, so that is not a barrier either....

If we are all serious about her long term future now is the time to take action and secure "the peoples aircraft" for those who have given so much (all of us included)  over the years, rather than being hidden away and slowly rotting, unloved and uncared for.

I also personally think (aka controversial statement ahead) there is more value to retaining the services of our brilliant engineering staff than the part time efforts of those at the top of the organisation  that have failed in their efforts to deliver what was promised......why are they not going freelance/ donating their services free of charge given the crisis we are now in?
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: ascot5046 on January 19, 2017, 01:53:41 PM
Disappointed, shocked, sad, angry, frustrated.  These are all sentiments I am also feeling right now.

I'm sad for those who have lost their positions.  Angry and frustrated that the Trust did not see the writing on the wall before committing the jet to a less than secure future.  I mean storage?  what's that all about?  Throw a tarpaulin over her or what?  Yes we'll have the carefully crafted FAQ's on Friday but I don't think I'll be impressed.

The public MUST have access to this, the people's aircraft and for that to happen, every effort must be made to get 558 out of Doncaster.  I foresee a fate just like XM603 at Woodford if not.  All the bluster about keeping her in flying condition with monthly engine runs etc. will only have been effective if a 1-off ferry flight could be made.

The Trust's ambitious plans seem to have totally floundered through lack of commercial funding; we cannot be asked to stump up £200k on the hope that the situation will be resolved.

I don't think a Vulcan can be reverse engineered into moveable bits to go anywhere by road - a friend of mine who was on "Crash & Smash" at Abingdon says they only cut them up.

RIP XH558??


Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: minty4371 on January 19, 2017, 05:11:54 PM
Sorry for the people who are no longer part of the Vulcan.
Thank you to them for their passionate work with the aircraft over the years.

Who will go to see her next year when they start public tours again?
They might get a few, but not many, I bet. (My thoughts only)
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: Rick Steer on January 19, 2017, 05:36:32 PM
I wish I shared your optimism Minty.....

I just don't see us being able to raise £200K, and even if we do, that doesn't appear anywhere near enough to build a new hanger, so I still don't understand what that money will be used for....presumably the same unknown place that the rest of the funds have gone up to now?
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: dee on January 19, 2017, 08:03:20 PM
So many questions that we all want answered, but very doubtful that any will get asked or replied to..
Sad, devastated for those that have lost their jobs after so faithfully looking after her..
To be honest it bloody STINKS!!!
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: Rick Steer on January 19, 2017, 08:14:58 PM
Dee,

It does indeed....the trust must provision for the calling of a extraordinary meeting - if enough of us feel strongly enough, we should trigger one to get our answers.....

I'm happy to do the digging to find out the rules on how we trigger one.

Will post on here, and we can judge the level of interest once we know how to do it.
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: jakspeed on January 19, 2017, 09:08:18 PM
So many questions that we all want answered, but very doubtful that any will get asked or replied to..
Sad, devastated for those that have lost their jobs after so faithfully looking after her..
To be honest it bloody STINKS!!!
Well said Dee!!!!
Wonder if the Trust would be available for a question and answer session?? And would they tell us the truth?? I think not but they would still ask for our cash to pay their wages..............
Totally gutted for 558 and for the lads who lovingly looked after her so we could be privileged to see her grace our skies time and time again.
This is NOT the right retirement home for the old girl - we need to be proactive and do what we can to get her out of there. If anyone has any ideas or thoughts of who we need to approach or what we can do to help the old girl please feel free to pm myself or Dee.
558 has been a massive part of my life, given me so much joy and so many lovely new friends that I feel I must try to help her retire where she is wanted and accessible to all........


Rant over - gutted, pi$$ed off, emotional, angry and so, so sad at how this is all ending
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: Rick Steer on January 19, 2017, 09:18:32 PM
In the memorandum and articles of the Vulcan To The Sky Trust...

"The trustees may call general meetings and, on the requisition of members pursuant to the provisions of the Act, shall forthwith proceed to convene and extraordinary general meeting for a date not later than 8 weeks after the receipt of the requisition."

As I understand it all paid up Founding Guardians are members, and therefore can request an extraordinary meeting by writing to the chairman of trustees, John Sharman. The registered address is

Vulcan to the Sky Trust
Hanger 3
Fourth Avenue
Doncaster Sheffield Airport
Doncaster
DN9 3GE

So - how does everyone feel - do we need to call a meeting to discuss this?

I'm going to start a new thread with Extra Ordinary General Meeting as it's title......
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: PaulH2015 on January 21, 2017, 09:19:51 AM
Some Q&A here for those that haven't seen it http://www.vulcantothesky.org/faq-contact/survival-q-a.html

Still curiously vague as to where they will be: 'inside in a dry environment'.

On the question of cost of new hanger(s) "The developers are paying for the development on land already identified by the airport. Vulcan to the Sky Trust will be leasing it from the developers so we will not need to invest any supporters’ money in the building or the infrastructure."  But no indication as to whether this relates to the interim or ETNA hanger.

Of note is that 24% of the first £100,000 was raised in 24 hours.
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: Joseph on January 21, 2017, 01:00:46 PM
Question?  Is the £25000 hard cash and actually raised or is it pledged. Turning pledges into hard cash has always been a problem in the past. with regard the storage facility I suspect it might be a very large marquee? No planning consent required as it is a temporary structure.

In the event that a transit flight can be arranged the final destination must not include Durham Tees Valley as has been suggested on the facebook page or Liverpool John lennon.

(the same owners and they own a few shopping centres also responsible indirectly for the scrapping of a preserved Falklands conflict frigate as they wanted it and few other historic vessels off their berths within days).

She needs to be placed in semi retirement where she is accessible and is still able stretch her legs and flash the famous Vulcan silk knickers she keeps hidden.
Title: Re: hanger move
Post by: PaulH2015 on January 21, 2017, 01:48:26 PM
If you read the information it only talks about 'donations', not pledges.

They give arguments as to why Doncaster was chosen including "mainly related to the need to have a top-quality runway with emergency support so we can taxi XH558 regularly for her supporters."

XM655 does regular fast taxying at an airfield with minimal facilities and living out of doors.  Doncaster has significant disadvantages such as being booted out of house and home when commercial pressures take precedence as we have seen, probably very strict controls and potential penalties for fast taxying - imagine if there were a major problem on the runway and it couldn't immediately be moved.  But most importantly with the public road immediately adjacent to the full length of the runway and with far better views than anywhere the public are likely to be allowed inside the airport perimeter, just how many paying customers are they going to get?  They may well be regretting that decision, but I doubt they would admit it, and unless a one-off flight can be authorised (even assuming alternative proper accommodation can be arranged) they - and we! - are stuck with it.

They also mention needing somewhere to fly the Canberra from - eventually - but I can't see that needs a full commercial airport either.