Vulcan To The Sky - Forums

Vulcan To The Sky => Trust Newsletter archive => Topic started by: CLIFFORD on January 31, 2017, 01:14:10 PM

Title: NEWS LETTER
Post by: CLIFFORD on January 31, 2017, 01:14:10 PM
I did not receive last Fridays news letter fri 27, they should be getting interesting now.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ADI on January 31, 2017, 09:11:20 PM
I got Fridays but nothing today, whats happening?  ???
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ADI on January 31, 2017, 09:17:24 PM
hi here is a link to Fridays https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/64a6NB5Vw6Js6-e1MFCocXN6WBSjW5KWxeJ5NWh5U_I (https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/64a6NB5Vw6Js6-e1MFCocXN6WBSjW5KWxeJ5NWh5U_I)
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on January 31, 2017, 09:21:07 PM
News letters only come out on Friday now.

Announced in the news letter on the 18th January, but near the bottom so guess most people had given up reading by then....
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ADI on January 31, 2017, 10:35:07 PM
cheers Sam found it.

"As part of the re-structure and cost-savings, our regular email updates will continue each Friday, but we will be ceasing our Tuesday edition with immediate effect. Our various social media streams will carry on unaffected and we would urge everyone who may not use one at the moment to consider joining. They are a great way of keeping informed."
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 01, 2017, 09:05:34 AM
£43k raised so far, the implication being that this amount will be matched by the philanthropists mentioned in the 18th Jan newsletter.  Is that right?  Which would make the end of Feb target almost met?  Or is that the matched amount which would be very different?  I wish things were made clearer.

And why is £200k needed by the end of March anyway, if the developers are funding the construction of the hanger, and VTTS will only start leasing it then?  I wish things were made clearer.

And just what does 'temporary storage facility' until the end of April mean?  I wish things were made clearer.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Rick Steer on February 01, 2017, 09:58:28 AM
Hi Paul,

I think many of us share your desire for more transparency and clarity.

I've written to the chairman on the trust, and sent an e-mail to the contact address listed on the Vulcan XH558 e-mail address, so far have not received anything back.

The lack of information is driving people away, just at the time when the core supporters are needed the most. Such a shame.

The other thing I'm unclear on, is what happens if the £200K is not raised - does the trust get wound up? Would the airframe be offered for sale by the administrators? Hopefully it wont come to that, but if we knew, we could be prepared, and have plans in place to safeguard the aircraft. Again - lack of information precludes any serious planning by those who have XH558 at heart.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: dee on February 01, 2017, 10:54:32 AM
I seriously doubt any questions will be answered honestly!!! >:D
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Rick Steer on February 01, 2017, 05:13:06 PM
I seriously doubt any questions will be answered honestly!!! >:D

I suspect you may be right, but it doesn't hurt to try to keep them honest - as I pointed out, if they were seeking investment for a business loan, these and many more questions besides would be the minimum information they would have to provide. It should be no different just because we are 'mere' supporters.

Will wait and see.....
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 02, 2017, 10:10:08 AM
I see pictures on Twitter of XH558 being pushed out of hanger 3, and pulled into hanger 1, which seems to have been emptied of everything else.  To my untrained eye they are the same size, so why does she have to be moved?  And if it was always the intention to move to hanger 1 in this interim period why didn't they say so in place of the vague 'temporary storage facility'.

Wasn't the reason given for the move that the airport needed more space for their growing freight business?  So how come hanger 1 is available?  Is that owned by someone else who would rather rent the space to VTTS than Doncaster airport?  And is the £200k needed to pay that rent in this intervening period?  If so is a similar amount going to be needed to pay the rent on the new hanger?
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ADI on February 02, 2017, 08:15:09 PM
I wonder how much hangar 1 rent is? I think all the future planning was done during the good times when plenty money was coming in, the good times are over, the public aren't going to keep donating if they don't have a show to watch. maybe Dr Pleming should put some money in he's taken plenty out, well at least 70k as recently stated.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 03, 2017, 11:08:54 AM
So. The Trust can tell the media (see their Twitter feed) that the airport is providing the temporary storage facility free until April, and that the £200k is needed to maintain them there, and that it is likely to be a year until they will have the new hanger and resume activities, but not us.

Is the £200k for maintenance until April?  Or for a year?  If the former will there be regular pleading for £100k per month for the remainder of the year?  Or if the latter why the panic to raise it by the end of March?
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sarah Abbott on February 03, 2017, 11:40:10 AM
The information has gone out in the regular newsletter and is on the website.

To hibernate the existing operations, re-home the vital specialist tools, displays, period artefacts and other key assets, and secure Vulcan XH558 and Canberra WK163 in the new storage location, is expected to cost around £200,000 more than the Trust can afford given the cessation of tours and events. Half of this has been promised as matched-funding by a group of philanthropists close to Vulcan to the Sky Trust, against donations from XH558’s supporters and those who believe in retaining Jet-Age aircraft in British skies.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Mayfly on February 03, 2017, 03:53:58 PM
This is the latest press release maybe it answers some more questions

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/858/82/Why-is-Doncaster-right-for-XH558.html
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 03, 2017, 04:28:31 PM
The information has gone out in the regular newsletter and is on the website.

To hibernate the existing operations, re-home the vital specialist tools, displays, period artefacts and other key assets, and secure Vulcan XH558 and Canberra WK163 in the new storage location, is expected to cost around £200,000 more than the Trust can afford given the cessation of tours and events. Half of this has been promised as matched-funding by a group of philanthropists close to Vulcan to the Sky Trust, against donations from XH558’s supporters and those who believe in retaining Jet-Age aircraft in British skies.

And the rest of the questions?

Is the £200k for maintenance until April?  Or for a year?  If the former will there be regular pleading for £100k per month for the remainder of the year?  Or if the latter why the apparent panic to raise it by the end of March?

"This is the latest press release maybe it answers some more questions"

Again, it takes a press release to learn that Hanger 1 is the first interim, then the 'dedicated purpose-built facility to be ready for early 2018' is another interim, until ETNA is ready.  And the building of ETNA will 'most likely' not have to be funded by the Trust.

We still don't know why they had to move from Hanger 3 to Hanger 1 when the two buildings seem identical.  It can't just be space for freight, that makes no sense.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ascot5046 on February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
It doesn't answer anything really, more justifying what is now the status quo.

There may be a few die hard supporters who will cling on to hope, any hope, that this is not just another bundle of words, otherwise known as spin.

I for one would like to know what has happened to the engineering team following their redundancies.  Has Taff really thrown his toys out, spat his dummy and gone to maintain his pension pot while freelancing for the Trust, whenever that is called for.  Or maybe they have been sworn to a non-disclosure agreement? Perhaps it's none of my[our] business, but after all those Jaffa Cakes??..........

I really feel for the guys, not just the engineers but volunteers and all.

XH558 Locked away until 2018 when she will rise again like a phoenix - dream on.

So, so sad.  I hope I'm proved wrong - please
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Rick Steer on February 03, 2017, 05:30:19 PM
I for one would like to know what has happened to the engineering team following their redundancies.  Has Taff really thrown his toys out, spat his dummy and gone to maintain his pension pot while freelancing for the Trust, whenever that is called for.  Or maybe they have been sworn to a non-disclosure agreement? Perhaps it's none of my[our] business, but after all those Jaffa Cakes??..........

An update on Facebook, posted by someone who was there on the last Sunday, said that Taff had gone for an interview at Cranfield, and also said that after the way the engineering team had been treated by the trust, they would not be coming back to look after XH558..I can't speculate on the accuracy of those comments, but they were attributed to one of the engineering staff, so one imagines they are reasonably accurate.

If true, then the days of Xh558 being anything other than a static lifeless museum piece  (at best) are well and truly over.

We are therefore at the stage of hoping the comments were untrue.....unless anyone has a contact for Taff and a large supply of Jaffa cakes to bribe him to at least talk to us?

Surely the engineers should have been the last ones to go, them being the ones able to turn the lights out and all that....I cannot believe the trust has let them go, whilst the 2 at the top drawing the largest salaries (even cut down because they are now part time) are still there.  Not sure exactly what they are doing, I can't imagine them wielding oily rags & spanners to keep XH558 in fine fettle though.

In the words of Alan Sugar on this years apprentice "It makes me so angry"
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Mayfly on February 03, 2017, 05:47:56 PM
The official answer to the engineers question on the official FB page stated the Taff and Rick were on a small retainer to be available for any emergency and anti det checks.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: eddief on February 03, 2017, 10:02:17 PM
Personally, I think that the latest newsletter did a pretty good job of explaining things.

Now I'm going to rant...

I'm getting a tad p*d off that individuals are being named (for whom I have a LOT of respect) and that their (alleged) actions are apparently open-season for any interpretation that might be placed upon them.  This really isn't fair or necessary.  It also takes an incredibly naïve & simplistic approach to a very complicated set of problems.  If you want easy to grasp, black & white answers then the maintenance & restoration of complex jets is not for you. 

Please show a bit of respect & see the bigger picture.  Things didn't go to plan (and frankly, not through anything I could attribute to VTST or I wouldn't keep on sponsoring them) but the goal-posts moved, there isn't enough money and the only way to preserve 558 & other English heritage jets is to enter & endure a painful recovery period.  I will be firmly strapped in for the ride for as long as I can.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: steve w on February 04, 2017, 09:56:26 AM
Here here Eddie.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: dee on February 04, 2017, 12:02:48 PM
Me too
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ascot5046 on February 04, 2017, 12:31:44 PM
Maybe we're all a tad p*d off at being the Mushroom Syndrome?

Being one of the smaller benefactors and supporters, it's not always possible to keep us as well informed, being lower down in the food chain, so to speak.  That said, when previous financial crises occurred, the impending loss of the engineering team was well publicised and thankfully resulted in the project continuing.

I do not wish to be disrespectful to anyone involved though am happy to take this on the chin and apologise if needs be. Perhaps the "Peoples Aircraft" tag stretched to the "peoples engineers" as well?  Mea Culpa

But I do question why, when MaPS, CWJ's and the LPG manage to keep their airframes in ground running and taxy condition, was it necessary to attempt to maintain the jet as if it had a Permit to Fly? They are all complex jets maintained by volunteers, some of whom have themselves been volunteers on 558.  Perhaps we could be given the cost of this from last flight to the present?

Moving forward, the amount of work up that will be required to get the jet in a satisfactory condition to allow the commercial airport the confidence to let her use the active runway is not going to be an easy ride.  It will be like starting over from scratch but with a potentially less experienced team. I note that this has been factored into the survival plan.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Rick Steer on February 04, 2017, 07:49:37 PM
It also takes an incredibly naïve & simplistic approach to a very complicated set of problems.  If you want easy to grasp, black & white answers then the maintenance & restoration of complex jets is not for you. 


Eddie, I have never said the maintenance or restoration was ever easy, and my career is also spent managing complex projects and large scale budgets (albeit not in aviation restoration) so I do not underestimate the scale of the problem. If my requests for black and white plans for the current fundraising & future plans have caused offence then I apologise, particularly as you have (and no doubt will continue to) contributed far more than I ever will. 

But....

When things do not go to plan I think it is reasonable for those in charge to be held accountable, particularly when the result is the loss of peoples jobs, including the engineering staff without whom the future is very bleak indeed. When we have been paying our CEO a significant salary, it is reasonable to expect delivery of the aims of the trust in the post flight era. That has not happened, and whilst there have clearly been some surprises along the way, some of the decisions made are very questionable indeed.

Given things have not gone to plan up to now, then having a detailed plan to share with the supporters would surely raise confidence that has been lost in recent weeks? Although the latest news letter was better in terms of information provided, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

For those that still have the confidence to continue to donate, I applaud you. Sadly though, I do not.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: steve w on February 04, 2017, 08:21:23 PM
The CEO who had the vision and determination to return XH558 to the sky for 8 seasons, 4 more than anticipated. Just want to put that out there.... Oh, and who's salary was small for a business of such turnover and who nearly killed himself running this project.

Eddie - Thank you for all of your support over the years, financial and personal, without positive people like you we (including all the pessimists') would not have enjoyed 8 years of a flying Vulcan.

Rick - What have you done directly to help? You keep saying you have had enough and are going, please do.

I truly love this aircraft and have given my passion and time to provide income for her for 5 years with hands on tour guiding and from the early days as a supporter, there is nobody more aggrieved than myself that I can't keep doing that on a weekly basis. This project has survived much more testing times than this (August 2006? Thank the Lord for Jack Hayward's £500k)

For XH558's sake stop bitching and rally round as we have done countless times in the past.

Please let's do what we can to save the oldest extant Vulcan airframe and the one in the best condition in the world, they all said in 1993 "it will never fly again" in 2017 people are saying in true Frazer style "She's doomed" For goodness sake let's keep her as airworthy as we can, who knows?

Per Ardua ad Astra.

Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ascot5046 on February 04, 2017, 09:10:14 PM
Steve,

Asking what has someone done directly to help is surely a bit below the belt?  There's not a single person here who hasn't done, or  given what they could - or more - to save the project up to now. Some may wanted to give more in terms of time if the airfield was nearer. I was once promised a volunteer engineer position [after suitable training] but it didn't happen for a raft of reasons which I was happy to accept, then and now!   

On the subject of seasons,[8 - 4 more than anticipated?] I was under the apparently misguided impression that the flying would have been for 10 years and then retirement to a museum environment.  Factors that precluded this were withdrawal of design authority support, ongoing lack of funds and, sorry to remind you all, a serious oversight involving silica gel bags in the intakes.

And please, "keep her as airworthy as we can, who knows" the CEO has spoken on this.  End of.

If the powers that be think my contributions to this open forum are unworthy, please let me know and I'll cease to be a Founding Guardian with immediate effect. 
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: MARKSIX on February 04, 2017, 09:18:27 PM
deeply saddened that those who have put their heart and soul into the project from the start are being  "called to account" as it were . From the top to the volunteers they've given blood , sweat and tears ,and  health scares-- all so we could have that special dream fullfiled . From restoration --which they said couldn't be done  ! to many years of safe flying displays which brought the general public to our cause . Nobody was surprised more than me that we find ourselves in this position , the plans to move to Doncaster made sense when look deep into the future ETNA plans .I do feel the airport hasn't been fair in moving the goalposts from the original plan when moving there --- but that is not the fault of the trust .
I'm with Eddie on this --he too can see the bigger picture .  I was pleased to see the latest newsletter (perhaps could have been aired earlier ) as it went into greater detail about the complexities of how we are where we are. We the club members - soon to be Founding guardians - have been through many dark times from the beginning and we have ALWAYS come out the other side . I understand that some are more than angry about the situation now -- but again that's happened in the past at times , but  I note the donate page is still steadily creeping up , so there is still the love and support there , just feel we all need to regroup and look at the positives . Sure some media attention wouldn't go amiss ..........
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: steve w on February 04, 2017, 09:39:23 PM
Ascot5046 - Why? All I see is below the belt comments about the people that returned the Jet to the sky from people who are not close enough to the project to be experts, armchair warriors.

MARKSIX - Thank you - Keep the faith.

Seriously, we all love the Jet, why stop now trying to take things further???
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Rick Steer on February 04, 2017, 10:34:44 PM
Rick - What have you done directly to help? You keep saying you have had enough and are going, please do.

I have been in it from the beginning of the trust, donations running into the thousands over the years...

But we appear to have got to the point where I am not allowed to question the situation that have seen all of the staff laid off, the aircraft placed in storage, no taxi runs, etc, etc ,etc....

Steve, your wish is my command - good luck with alienating others that dare to have a different opinion to your own..

Direct debits now cancelled, profile deleted.

I'm gone....


Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Mayfly on February 05, 2017, 07:31:05 AM
Please may we have a 'shake of the head' smiley?

How sad.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ascot5046 on February 05, 2017, 02:47:10 PM
Why, Steve? Because no one should be questioned with a "what have you done to help" crack, that's why. And there you go again - calling  people armchair warriors.  There are as many members out here with as much, if not more, knowledge about how to run a project but are too far away or too busy to be directly or indirectly involved.   

If all you can see is below the belt comments, then I'm sorry.  I wrote to Dr. Pleming a year ago expressing my concerns over several of the issues that are being discussed in this forum.  I may not see the "big picture"[though I do see more than you may think] and 12 years' Royal Air Force service in aircraft avionics and flight simulation give me more of an insight into how this complex restoration project ranks as unequalled, not just from an armchair.

And Marksix, no one is above being called to account in a project of this magnitude, whatever their position.  I reiterate, I have the utmost respect for the unstinting devotion to this project of everyone, but the vision would never have materialised without Taff and his band of engineers and volunteers.

Like Rick, my intentions are from the heart and if you can't accept that, I'll be off too. 

Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: MARKSIX on February 06, 2017, 07:11:33 AM
Sorry ascot you misunderstand - and sorry if I offended. I was mearly saying  :) that those who have put their hearts and souls into the project shouldn't have so much hatred directed at them . Plans don't always go how we want them to go and that isn't always the fault of those people . Lets just all try to get along a bit more and channel our efforts into more support for the project . I am naturally a half glass person and just feel we need to pull together a bit more . http://vulcantothesky.org/smf/Smileys/default/smiley.gif
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ascot5046 on February 06, 2017, 03:32:54 PM
MARKSIX,
No you haven't offended, though hatred is a big word.  I would say more concern, mistrust and frustration in this forum.  Your a half glass person? - half full I'm sure!

Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: MARKSIX on February 07, 2017, 07:29:23 AM
Happy to have received my Founding Guardian invitation today . Despite worries , I'm still behind this all the way and although things are not happening as quickly as we would like as money is always an issue -- the future plans are  exciting . Lets see of we can move the donate page up a bit .....:)
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on February 10, 2017, 05:41:27 PM
The last news letter I received was Friday the 13th January.

Nothing heard since then...
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 11, 2017, 10:33:09 AM
The last news letter I received was Friday the 13th January.

Nothing heard since then...

Maybe they didn't want to rub salt ...
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on February 11, 2017, 01:21:44 PM
I had missed one - the last e-mail they actually sent was on the 18th (the day after they told me I was not required after the 17th of February)

You are probably right.

Bit of a shame really as it was the only we ever found out what was going on in the trust.  If you think the supporters are poorly informed....
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sarah Favell on February 11, 2017, 01:51:26 PM
Sam...........I've learnt things this week that I never knew too. X
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Mayfly on February 11, 2017, 03:34:02 PM

Bit of a shame really as it was the only we ever found out what was going on in the trust.  If you think the supporters are poorly informed....


Nothings changed over the years then Sam!
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on February 11, 2017, 09:48:55 PM
Did the news letter seriously include what looks like a child's drawing of the proposed new hangar?

UKARSE having a field day with our lack of professionalism.  http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67440&start=4925

What happened to the artist impression that was hanging around hangar 3 the week before last?
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: leslie on February 11, 2017, 09:55:25 PM
Sure did, had some lovely colouring in, kept inside the lines and everything https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/cUoe_YhDivlI1yveTsVBjQp2GRsiwHUoG12YREwn-I0
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Zero One on February 12, 2017, 09:59:04 AM
Did the news letter seriously include what looks like a child's drawing of the proposed new hangar?

UKARSE having a field day with our lack of professionalism.  http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67440&start=4925

What happened to the artist impression that was hanging around hangar 3 the week before last?


I could hardly believe my eyes! From a a supposedly "Professional" organisation , it was diabolically childish.
Who produced such an abomination.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Mayfly on February 12, 2017, 11:38:20 AM
That was my first thought too but according to a few (supposedly in the know) on UKAR they say it is the norm, it shows the project is in the early stages. As the project progresses the drawings improve showing progress.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: leslie on February 12, 2017, 12:22:26 PM
Would of thought we would be past early stages by now, considering they only have hangar 1 until April, with the hope of extending the stay, we could be years away from a building.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Fonseca on February 12, 2017, 01:49:48 PM
Sure did, had some lovely colouring in, kept inside the lines and everything

My copy has a special place on the fridge so everyone can see how good it is...  :D
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on February 12, 2017, 05:55:26 PM
This seems a bit strange.

There was an set of what looked like professional drawings (the sort of things councils show when they want to impress you with the wonderful new shopping centre they are going have built) they still exist about half way down the page here:- http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/858/82/Why-is-Doncaster-right-for-XH558.html

I am sure when that first appeared you could click on the image and look at the drawings.  There was an overview which showed a lot of the stuff that is in the childs sketch.  When you click on the image now it takes you to the "just giving page"...

The drawings were also in the hangar when we moved the stuff - I wish I had kept them now as they have obviously been lost in the move!

If you have had a set of drawings done once why would you need to get them done again?
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: sickbag_andy on February 12, 2017, 06:13:50 PM
Hi Sam - this article has some artist's impressions but no actual drawings: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/index.php?mact=News,m023bb,default,1&m023bbdetailpage=82&m023bbnumber=6&m023bbpagenumber=1&m023bbreturnid=306&page=306

I think that is probably ETNA anyway as it looks quite different.

While I'm posting may I take the opportunity to say thank you for everything you have done fot '558, the club and also helping me personally when you arranged the visit for the winner (Andy Brown aka Hairrig) of my first photo competition back in 2011 - a day he, Tara and I remember well with fond memories.
I wish you every success for the future , very best wishes
Andy

(Oh, and thanks  for the various sickbags you acquired for me!)
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on February 12, 2017, 06:49:35 PM
No worries.

To be honest I have had a ball.

For six years I have made my hobby my job.  I've met some great people, made some good friends and had some great times.   ;D

If I've not seemed happy sometimes I apologize but I will probably never be able to explain why...

I still stick by the strap line - "This has to be the best job in the world!"

Looks like I may need to get a proper job now (well in the next seven days)

So long - thanks for all the fish (Jaffa cakes)
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: sickbag_andy on February 12, 2017, 09:44:25 PM
Did the news letter seriously include what looks like a child's drawing of the proposed new hangar?

UKARSE having a field day with our lack of professionalism.  http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67440&start=4925

What happened to the artist impression that was hanging around hangar 3 the week before last?

they love to start arguments and be-little one another (and anybody else they can pick on) on there, that's what I got fed up with and I stopped posting, especially after one of the main protaganists (or should that be antagonists) accused me of trolling and stalking - black pots and kettles etc.

Anyway back to the plot and there seems to be some confusion about what goes where, what size it is and so on (and which way round it goes on UKAR!). So this evening I've been doing some delving and trying to put together some illustrations which will hopefully clarify things for those in doubt.....

firstly from the  website pages (and also I believe) a recent newsletter this illustration showing what the temp hangar will look like:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3734/32051506653_def495eb06_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QQhmgF)Vision - new hangar (https://flic.kr/p/QQhmgF) by Andrew Goldsmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125470545@N07/), on Flickr

from studying the plan in the top right and the sketch in the newsletter last Friday I have worked out that the top left illustration is the view from the north i.e. looking  towards the airport terminal, the entrance it on the east side (runway side). In the bottom part of the picture the entrance is on the right hand end and the cafe,conference rooms etc run along the east side at first floor level - the illustration shows windows at 2 levels and the sketch shows stairs to the upper level. The windows will give views across to the northern runway threshold as well as across the airport sewage treatment plant (more of that later,after nearly 40 years in the industry it's a subject close to my heart)! So with the sliding doors at the south end of the building that is how 558 will be moved in and out. now the orientation of everything should be clearer (I hope!).

for those that wonder about the size, the building is 50m x 50m plus a bit on the end on the north east corner for the entrance, how do I know - it's on the drawing in the top right of the illustration above, there's a scale on that drawing but here it is in larger format and I measured the building against that:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2223/32485057100_f4c53651c3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RuApHo)new hangar site plan scaled (https://flic.kr/p/RuApHo) by Andrew Goldsmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125470545@N07/), on Flickr

the drawing (when blown up a bit) also clearly shows the access into the site from the road to the other sewage treatment works, the one to the weat - that is owned and operated by Anglian Water (my former employers who by now after nearly 4 years may have finally realised that I have retired - I got no recognition of my departure whatsoever even after 38+ years service!). so there are in fact 2 sewage treatment works, one either side. I can assure you that the Anglian ones are well maintained and hardly ever smell and as for the airport one, although that treats the airport sewage it's biggest task is containing all the water run off from the airport hardstandings and treating it for all the cleansing and de-icing fluids etc before passing it into the balancing pond to the north of the building which controls it's flow into the receiving brooks. The plant is close to the building and it looks like an aeration type which are very efficient and create little odour which appears to be a concern on UKAR, the 2 big lagoons beyond that are 2 stages of purification with aeration (on google earth you can see the aerators) this ensures a very clean final effluent. so that's cleaned/cleared that one up!
Here's a link to the airport website page all about their water treatment processes: http://flydsa.co.uk/about-us/environment/water/

The layout overall can be seen here in a picture I made using google earth and overlaying the plan from the illustration:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2368/32485056900_0e4b0fcdf9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RuApDW)new hangar overlay to google earth image (https://flic.kr/p/RuApDW) by Andrew Goldsmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125470545@N07/), on Flickr

finally, some people still don't seem sure where all this is going to happen so here's a general location plan of the north west corner of the airfield, you can see the top 2 hangars (is the one on the right hangar 1?), the runway threshold and Hayfield Lane which leads to the site (and to the sewage treatment woks).

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/586/32824990636_5cc7882abd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S1CE7q)new hangar location (https://flic.kr/p/S1CE7q) by Andrew Goldsmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125470545@N07/), on Flickr

there we are sickbag-andy's guide to the temporary hangar, hope it helps as it took me quite a while to put it together but it might help slow down the rumour mills grinding away elsewhere and misleading a few of us on here.

Andy
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on February 12, 2017, 10:24:04 PM
Good effort Andy, thanks for that.

Given that all this information is out there in the public domain I wonder why we decided to publish the sketch?

Perhaps Ian will be along to explain soon.

And no, once more I did not receive the newsletter again this week.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: leslie on February 13, 2017, 07:39:20 AM
I thought that building is the final home, Etna project, Vulcan Academy, home of 163, 558 and the other little one for the Trust, not the temp hangar, I thought the temp hangar was hangar 1 which they have until April. I guessed the next temp hangar would be a marquee of some description, until this on is built.

Thanks Andy great post
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: sickbag_andy on February 13, 2017, 08:02:15 AM
I thought that building is the final home, Etna project, Vulcan Academy, home of 163, 558 and the other little one for the Trust, not the temp hangar, I thought the temp hangar was hangar 1 which they have until April. I guessed the next temp hangar would be a marquee of some description, until this on is built.

Thanks Andy great post

Hi Leslie, I took the images from here: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/xh558-s-survival.html

about 1/2 way down is a heading: Aircraft to be placed in storage while a new hangar is constructed and below that the images I used, I'm taking that to be the hanger discussed in the wording there:
During that time, the Trust hopes to conclude an agreement to build a new hangar at Doncaster Sheffield Airport, allowing resumption of tours, events, educational visits and engineering activities by the end of 2017. These businesses will then fund the lease of the hangar from the developers until the larger, more ambitious ETNA facility is ready.


Please don't say I've misread it and the images are the final ETNA, I'd seen quite different images for that here: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/history/post-flight.html  :-[

Andy
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: leslie on February 13, 2017, 08:34:10 AM
I have no idea now!!! The first impression of the Etna centre was a giant delta shape!!! Whatever they are trying to/are building it isn't going to be ready by April, at best if they start building now, they have plenty a labour and resource it might be open by next April, you could probably get the aircraft undercover by the end if this year.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 13, 2017, 08:43:23 AM
I am sure when that first appeared you could click on the image and look at the drawings.  There was an overview which showed a lot of the stuff that is in the childs sketch.  When you click on the image now it takes you to the "just giving page"...

Not for me just now.

And I thought it was rather in the spirit of another preliminary sketch ...

If you read the newsletters you will see that Hanger 1 is expected to be used until early 2018, and the new hanger for at least five years.  April is the end of the rent-free period for Hanger 1.

Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PA28 on February 13, 2017, 09:55:00 AM

The sketch indeed was in the spirit of the lead article for #TheXH558Story See: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/859/82/TheXH558Story.html but guess those on UKAR have a different agenda.
Nothing good obviously derived from those sketches shown from Roy Chadwick!

Anyway, the outside of the 'interim' building has clearly been shown, and these were the first sketches of the inside (first floor) from conversations with the architect - more to see things are progressing. I'm sure they will get modified again before the final plans. Perhaps when they have created the scaled versions we can show those.

To help on expectations, here is my take...... 

- Storage in Hangar 1 until April - longer if possible.
- INTERIM HANGAR (the one being shown in press release) - 2018 through to whenever...
- 2018 onward: work on securing external funding for a much larger educational /inspirational facility (ETNA) that is then built within a 5-8 year time frame while Trust is still operational in the INTERIM hangar.
- When ETNA is built, move all across and existing lease passed to another airfield operator- or if really successful with grants, INTERIM hangar merged as an annex.

By nature, some might change, but that is certainly how I see the best case scenario.


Hope that clarifies that the interim hangar is not the final version of ETNA, but it can certainly be a stepping stone.



 
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: leslie on February 13, 2017, 10:48:14 AM
What happens if the Hangar 1 offer isn't extended is there an option to rent, how much and how would this be funded? If she is evicted for the second time what's the plan, under cover storage? Costs, can the trust meet this?
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 13, 2017, 04:36:37 PM
Again, Hanger 1 is RENT FREE until the end of April (18/1/2017).  Unless it's going to be towed out to somewhere else equally rent-free (which hasn't been mentioned), or left outside rent-free (which has been discounted), then I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that Hanger 1 will continue to be available - at a rental - until the new/interim hanger is available in early 2018.  I do agree that this is one of the many missing bits of info, amongst the rest that has only been drip-fed over the past month.

Dr Pleming has also said that there will be no more pleas for cash during 2017, presumably because they need the funding for Hanger 1 rent to be in place before the rent-free period expires.  What happens if the £200k ("to secure the Trust and its assets for 2017" 8/2/2017) is not raised/matched by the end of April is another matter.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Fonseca on February 13, 2017, 05:38:22 PM
I've borrowed Andy's artwork (hope that's ok?) to show (orange) what I thought was the land proposed for the Etna site in relation to the site of the interim hangar (yellow). Cannot find anything definitive in print but I'm sure I've seen it somewhere! Also that as stated elsewhere it currently appears to be outside the airfield boundary...

(http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m523/peelp10/etna_zps27vaqqid.jpg)
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on February 13, 2017, 10:09:54 PM
That is the site I was told was earmarked for ETNA.

What the satellite does not show is how uneven it is!  Most land around airfield is pretty flat (Sutton Bank and Nympsfield being two obvious exceptions) but that field looks like a motocross course.

There will be a lot of work required to build Roberts dream.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Fonseca on February 13, 2017, 10:39:15 PM
Thanks Sam, that helps and hopefully removes some confusion. And "Bingo!" I've now found it.

http://www.guytaylorassociates.co.uk/projects/etna-centre.html (http://www.guytaylorassociates.co.uk/projects/etna-centre.html)

The line drawing at the bottom. For orientation the "interim" hangar would be linked to the stub of taxiway to the left of 558...

(Thanks Andy!)
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: sickbag_andy on February 15, 2017, 01:18:54 PM
fascinating, I hadn't seen that before. It does look massive.

The Vulcan on the ground is almost lost in all that space BUT where is the 2nd one hanging from the roof coming from? Is XM607 finally going to be taken into the warm from Waddington?

And also a DC.3 suspended from the ceiling - I suppose there are a few knocking about though.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 16, 2017, 08:28:09 AM
... BUT where is the 2nd one hanging from the roof coming from? Is XM607 finally going to be taken into the warm from Waddington?

And also a DC.3 suspended from the ceiling ...

"initial concept designs ..."
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: sickbag_andy on February 16, 2017, 08:36:37 AM
... BUT where is the 2nd one hanging from the roof coming from? Is XM607 finally going to be taken into the warm from Waddington?

And also a DC.3 suspended from the ceiling ...

"initial concept designs ..."

Indeed, but showing unrealistic illustrations will spark a few doubts in the minds of those who enjoy seizing on these sort of things. May the Canberra on the hangar floor (or is it a centre?) would project a better idea of what it will be like.

Would like to see '607 saved from the weather though.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 16, 2017, 08:41:31 AM
... BUT where is the 2nd one hanging from the roof coming from? Is XM607 finally going to be taken into the warm from Waddington?

And also a DC.3 suspended from the ceiling ...

"initial concept designs ..."

Indeed, but showing unrealistic illustrations will spark a few doubts in the minds of those who enjoy seizing on these sort of things.

People like that are best ignored.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Mayfly on February 16, 2017, 04:01:38 PM
The Trust have come in for a lot of nasty comments recently and not for the first time because supporters feel they are being ignored. Dr Ps recent podcast just like last time he did one quelled a lot of that shouting. Ignoring those who make the noise just makes them shout louder.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 17, 2017, 03:56:00 PM
The Trust have come in for a lot of nasty comments recently and not for the first time because supporters feel they are being ignored. Dr Ps recent podcast just like last time he did one quelled a lot of that shouting. Ignoring those who make the noise just makes them shout louder.

I'm saying supporters should ignore them, not the Trust, although even they ignore the more outrageous comments.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ADI on February 21, 2017, 09:18:02 PM
A Tuesday news letter today asking for donations, what happens if the 100k isn't raised???????? :-X
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PA28 on February 22, 2017, 09:13:06 AM
We worry about that come the last week of March if there is still a gap.

Plan was to be at 50% by the end of February, so we are well ahead...  need to keep pushing..
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on February 25, 2017, 09:26:16 AM
A Tuesday news letter today asking for donations, what happens if the 100k isn't raised???????? :-X

Fridays newsletter give a clue - "You can help them survive until the time comes for them to emerge once again."  With that sentiment repeated in other words further down.  'Survive', note, not 'keep them secure'.  The implication being that if the money isn't raised they will not survive.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: CLIFFORD on March 11, 2017, 11:39:49 AM
no news letter again to day  Sat 11 march. just received my founding guardian cert and badge thank you.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: 106500 on March 11, 2017, 07:43:55 PM
Just received my certificate today but it has a completely different person and address on the covering letter and certificate. Anyone else had this problem?
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on March 12, 2017, 04:34:42 PM
Still no news letters being received here (apart from when Fonseca forwards them on to me)

Talk about forgotten as soon as you walk out of the door...
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ADI on March 12, 2017, 10:22:41 PM
Received one on Friday
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PA28 on March 14, 2017, 03:19:14 PM
Hi Sam,

PM me your email address (where you want them) and I'll check the delivery system.

I assume your Vulcan one is no longer valid?
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PaulH2015 on March 15, 2017, 09:20:12 AM
I assume your Vulcan one is no longer valid?

Stab ... twist ...
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on March 16, 2017, 12:25:00 AM
Actually Ian is correct.

The vulcan e-mail is no longer valid.

In order to save money (I think the subscription to outlook costs about £25) the trust has removed all of the "vulcan to the sky.org" and "TVOC.co.uk" e-mail addresses.

A bit of shame really as there were a lot of contacts in there that I had made over the six years I worked for the trust.

There was also a lot of historical information which has now been lost - very much in the same way as when the various incarnations of the forums are dismantled.

Still I guess every penny counts.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: MrTim on March 16, 2017, 10:38:11 AM
Was there a newsletter on Tuesday 14th?  I've not received one.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: CLIFFORD on March 16, 2017, 02:17:31 PM
no news letters on Tuesdays.  if your lucky you may get one Fridays.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PA28 on March 16, 2017, 03:13:42 PM
Just to help avoid confusion, there are limited 'specific' promotional emails to smaller audiences (at low cost), so some might get one, and not another...

Friday's are 'generally' the only full circulation, with the odd exception for appeal updates or major fundraising.

Criteria for the others might be:

 - Have supported shares.
-  Have spent in the web store.
-  Have bought medals
-  Have bought DVDs before      etc.....    These work out more effective as the returns (engagement and income) far outweigh the costs, so making money to help XH558.

This is a testing system for future things like Founding Guardians, Presentations/Events etc... (within a certain radius) etc...

On that basis, ex-Club members that are or are about to become FG's will not be missing out. In fact, you will have (O2 Priority type) notice!!

Hope that helps.

Ian
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: Sad Sam on March 16, 2017, 06:48:34 PM
I thought the founding Guardians scheme must have been shelved as I've heard nothing in the year the scheme has been running.

I submitted an article for the first magazine - that will be a work of nonsense now as everything I put in that article has now been shelved/mothballed.

So basically you are saying that if someone has subscribed to share issues (which I have)  Have spent money in the webstore (which I have) or bought DVDs (which I have) I've also bought books, clothing and other merchandise.  Then that person will get onto the special approved list...

It would be nice if the news letter contained news about what is happening to 558 rather than just more ways for the punters to give you more money.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: CLIFFORD on March 17, 2017, 01:58:48 PM
I STILL have not had last weeks news letter :-[
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: PA28 on March 17, 2017, 05:33:51 PM
Sam,
It's not a special list, they are targeted lists, based on what that person has been interested in before. The whole idea is that we can reduce the commercial calls to those that are more likely to want to hear about them, then bring in more editorials and interesting stories to the regular Friday editions. (Not going to happen just yet though...)

Idea of the 'segmented' lists is to reduce costs while maximising income.
We can only talk more about XH558 when there is something happening to her, which on the basis of tonights edition, might be sooner if funds keep coming in.

Yes, Founding Guardians scheme is being re-energised and moving onwards now 2017 is secure to cover basic survival of the Trust.


Cliff, you are on the system and they are going to you, so check your SPAM/other folders. Will update the archive soon, so you can view online if worst happens.

Cheers.
Title: Re: NEWS LETTER
Post by: ADI on March 21, 2017, 10:00:29 PM
news letter received tonight see here https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/5DzJ2a3jbORXHAJqwLEUyDsMdx_WMLkpQ8Nf_aw55ZY