Vulcan To The Sky - Forums

XH558 Operations => Engineering => Topic started by: Sad Sam on June 19, 2017, 06:42:26 PM

Title: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on June 19, 2017, 06:42:26 PM
Looking at UKARSE forum the feeding frenzy has started.

The news is that 558 will be stored outside from the end of the month.

What a great job the trust has made of this.  When we were made redundant the line was that the new hangar would be built by the end of this year and tours and events would start early in 2017.  Six months on and absolutely no sign of any hangar building type activity at Doncaster and our baby about to be chucked outside along with 163 and all the other stuff that is stored in No.1 hangar I guess.

As usual no word from the trust - they'll just keep quite and hope we don't notice.

I wonder how they will empty hangar 1?  It took four of us the best part of a month to move all the stuff from three hangar.  Now there is no-one left (as Taff has now started a new job at Waddington)  perhaps Andrew Edmonson will be getting his hands dirty...

What happens to 163 and all her spares?  At the moment the aircraft and most of the large components are in hangar 1.  If she is moved outside in the state she is now (engines, flying controls and panels removed in preparation for the major) the chances of any return to flight are remote.  The spares are in Delta court along with all the tons of Vulcan web store stock how long before the trust is ejected from that unit?  The spare engines are still in Coventry...

What a complete horlicks...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on June 19, 2017, 08:22:48 PM
Ive been fuming all day!! This just gets worse!! A vote of definate  no-confidence from this XH558 supporter!!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on June 19, 2017, 08:29:29 PM
I can only imagine how bitter you must feel Sam,all the years of toil and no doubt love for 558 to see her end up as a "Cash Cow" to keep a few of the favoured trust employees in a job  !!! some of whom in my opinion should have been given their cards years ago !,it,s a crying shame that 558 could have flown back into "Brunty" and been looked after for years to come by a hugely competent team of "VOLUNTEERS" ,instead we have the prospect of the "Scrappers" cutting torch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Pujgnie on June 19, 2017, 10:18:37 PM
I can see this not ending well.  >:(

Both 558 and Canberra kicked out of Hangar 3 to Hangar 1 was bad enough. Now kicked out of that to fester whilst the 'alleged' new hangar is built (Which will probably take the best part of a year - at a guess) is very sad. With no engineers to maintain them - it is likely both air frames will rapidly fall foul to the weather and end up looking very pitiful after a few months.

I just feel so very sorry for all the ground crew that put so many hours into keeping 558 serviceable from the outset, only to see it dumped outside like an old redundant TV set is appalling IMO.



Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: planenut on June 20, 2017, 07:38:50 AM
I had a fabulous time chasing this beast around the country, meeting some great people and finding such dedicated ones, my thanks to those.

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on June 20, 2017, 09:13:09 PM
it was only last month that the engines were brought out of hibernation, now what? are they left in a safe state?  >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on June 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Now the engines have been run there is no inhibiting oil in the fuel system.  The inhibiting oil prevents the seals in the fuel system from rotting.  It took Ray two days to drain the system and inhibit the engines.  Now the engines have been run they need to be run every 28 days.  Perhaps some of Taffs volunteers have magically learnt how to inhibit the engines.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Trev on June 20, 2017, 10:24:18 PM
Hi Sam

Did the build a plane project end up being stored in hanger 1 also?
If so what will happen to all the parts that everyone helped to build?
its a shame it has come to this because christian and the other air cadets realy enjoyed building the parts for it.
As for the Vulcan even i am beginning to realise that it was a big mistake keeping her here in Doncaster.

Regards and best wishes Trev   
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on June 21, 2017, 06:38:08 PM
Now the engines have been run there is no inhibiting oil in the fuel system.  The inhibiting oil prevents the seals in the fuel system from rotting.  It took Ray two days to drain the system and inhibit the engines.  Now the engines have been run they need to be run every 28 days.  Perhaps some of Taffs volunteers have magically learnt how to inhibit the engines.

That does sound a bit of a worry but how do all the other preserved aircraft at places like Bruntingthorpe and Elvington get on. Do they do regular anti-det runs on them. If they do then they dont give much publicty to them and would have thought they could attract a few extra visitors if the public were told they were happening.

I do worry that 558 is going to continually lurch from one problem (dont like to use the word crisis) and sooner or later the support will dry up. Shame there arent any remaining club funs that can be used to protect her but l assume even if they havent been finally handed over yet they will only go on wages when they finally do reach the trust. I do wonder why they need to retain several full time staff members now, other groups dont  operate on that model and are successful in thier aspirations.

Ive said it before and l will say it again, lf only the vote hadnt been for integration but association we would be in a much stronger position to give the right kind of selective help.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on June 21, 2017, 10:08:16 PM
I can't believe all the newsletters every week paint a different picture to whats been said on here,

is Plemming in denial? 

or are we going overboard?

can't belive its come to this,

a few taxy runs a year would have kept me donating but we get nothing  >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Rushy on June 22, 2017, 06:39:56 AM
Is the content UKARSE suddenly gospel on this forum?
Let's at least get some real facts before we start jumping in with those morons..
I'm not saying the trust isn't doing this but I'm also pretty sure that, until quite recently, that other forum was never a source for facts on here!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Funtera on June 22, 2017, 11:14:20 AM
Is the content UKARSE suddenly gospel on this forum?
Let's at least get some real facts before we start jumping in with those morons..
I'm not saying the trust isn't doing this but I'm also pretty sure that, until quite recently, that other forum was never a source for facts on here!

Tending to Agree with Rushy here I'm afraid .. after reading some posts on UK"ARSE" about LFA7 .. I'm not there anymore!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on June 22, 2017, 01:12:42 PM
I doubt that Sam would repeat something from another forum if he himself wasn't confident about the truth of the matter !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on June 22, 2017, 03:44:55 PM
Is the content UKARSE suddenly gospel on this forum?
Let's at least get some real facts before we start jumping in with those morons..
that other forum was never a source for facts on here!

Heaven forbid Rushy, if it were then we might as well all give up. If they WERE a source of facts then the first thing l would do would be to ask them for this Saturdays lottery numbers and bail out 558 with slme of the winnings!

tHey doo enjoy  stoking fireS on their so maybe them shud sponsor a water bmober. (Deliberate mis-spellings so the usual suspect can have a dig at me, since he accused me of trolling l stopped posting, got fed up of his antics but the chosen few still adore him!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on June 22, 2017, 10:22:25 PM
Hi Sam

Did the build a plane project end up being stored in hanger 1 also?
If so what will happen to all the parts that everyone helped to build?
its a shame it has come to this because christian and the other air cadets realy enjoyed building the parts for it.
As for the Vulcan even i am beginning to realise that it was a big mistake keeping her here in Doncaster.

Regards and best wishes Trev

Hi Trev,

The build a  plane parts were stored in Dave Firth workshop (in anticipation of this exact scenario occurring)  If I had been allowed to continue Dave would have been happy for me to carry on with the project in the workshop.

We had a living breathing ETNA project right there but the management did not want to see it or use it (I guess because there was no shiny gin palace to set their office up in)

No idea what will happen to that project now.  Andrew edmondson is now the registered builder (even though he never went near the project before)  i did hear that Jack Milne was trying to rescue it and I have also heard that some of the hangar volunteers have been looking around.

There is still about £1000 worth of my tools stored in with the project so I will be following any progress with interest.

Yes it does look like Doncaster was a huge mistake now...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on June 22, 2017, 10:28:48 PM
Is the content UKARSE suddenly gospel on this forum?
Let's at least get some real facts before we start jumping in with those morons..
I'm not saying the trust isn't doing this but I'm also pretty sure that, until quite recently, that other forum was never a source for facts on here!

Hi Rushy,

UKARSE is not a source of gospel truth,

However it will be a cold day in hell before you get any real facts about what is actually going on (especially from the trust)

A lot of things that get posted on UKARSE do turn out to be fact....
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Rushy on June 23, 2017, 08:48:28 AM
I'm not saying they aren't putting her outside but, when I hear quotes from UKARSE on this forum I just hear axes grinding.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on June 23, 2017, 01:03:36 PM
The guy who posted the info always sounds like he supports 558 to me, he also stated that the info came from a 'key person in the VTTST'.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: hairrig on June 23, 2017, 03:32:31 PM
Did no one else get the Floundering Guardians newsletter on Wednesday? At the bottom it has this about the hangar....

"As you know, Doncaster Sheffield Airport have allowed us to store XH558, WK163 and WK275 in Hangar 1 at a peppercorn rent for the time being.

From the original position of allowing us to stay until the end of April, the Airport were able to extend our occupation until the end of July, and this may be extended further.

In the expectation that we will have to leave Hangar 1 at some point, we have agreed with the airport the locations to which the aircraft will be moved temporarily, until the New Hangar is available for occupation

Whilst these aircraft were designed to spend the majority of their time outside, we are mindful of the need to protect them and have plans ready.

With the help of local suppliers, we have a number of ISO containers available into which we will move the rest of the Trust's assets currently in Hangar 1.

We will of course provide further updates.



Do look out for your next Founding Guardians’ email newsletter in the middle of July."



On a slightly different issue have the legal issues around life/ honorary members of the club been investigated? Do any such members need to explicitly agree to the club being dissolved and their life membership being terminated?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on June 23, 2017, 05:32:57 PM
The above statement is in today's Newsletter.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: scampton61 on June 23, 2017, 06:01:22 PM
On a slightly different issue have the legal issues around life/ honorary members of the club been investigated? Do any such members need to explicitly agree to the club being dissolved and their life membership being terminated?

What legal issues? All Club members (including honorary etc) had the opportunity to vote. There was a massive majority for winding up the Club and joining the Trust's Guardian scheme, a handful of members can't have a veto on that decision. As far as I know they were in any case offered free membership of the Guardians.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: hairrig on June 23, 2017, 09:09:53 PM
On a slightly different issue have the legal issues around life/ honorary members of the club been investigated? Do any such members need to explicitly agree to the club being dissolved and their life membership being terminated?

What legal issues? All Club members (including honorary etc) had the opportunity to vote. There was a massive majority for winding up the Club and joining the Trust's Guardian scheme, a handful of members can't have a veto on that decision. As far as I know they were in any case offered free membership of the Guardians.

Just raised the potential issue as I was interested in how important and pivotal life members were in a recent (albeit a completely different situation) legal battle within the Carp Society. Once a life member always a life member.

To my mind the ordinary membership will gradually decline to zero but there is still a potential for there to be members of the club by way of life memberships or similar. If any of these members do not agree to terminate their membership or take up the Guardians scheme then the club has to still exist and yes I suppose there is the potential for these members to make their own decisions.

All academic though if all the honorary members have been 'dealt' with.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on June 24, 2017, 12:03:28 AM
Did no one else get the Floundering Guardians newsletter on Wednesday? At the bottom it has this about the hangar....

"As you know, Doncaster Sheffield Airport have allowed us to store XH558, WK163 and WK275 in Hangar 1 at a peppercorn rent for the time being.

From the original position of allowing us to stay until the end of April, the Airport were able to extend our occupation until the end of July, and this may be extended further.

In the expectation that we will have to leave Hangar 1 at some point, we have agreed with the airport the locations to which the aircraft will be moved temporarily, until the New Hangar is available for occupation

Whilst these aircraft were designed to spend the majority of their time outside, we are mindful of the need to protect them and have plans ready.

With the help of local suppliers, we have a number of ISO containers available into which we will move the rest of the Trust's assets currently in Hangar 1.

We will of course provide further updates.



Do look out for your next Founding Guardians’ email newsletter in the middle of July."



On a slightly different issue have the legal issues around life/ honorary members of the club been investigated? Do any such members need to explicitly agree to the club being dissolved and their life membership being terminated?

Amazing...

So when I needed containers to store the Canberra spares there were none available and I was basically told to go away and stop being silly.  Eventually an unwanted container was sourced from a playground scheme.  Now there are local suppliers who are willing to provide containers to house all of the trusts assets?  This will be worth watching.  Who is going to load the containers?  As previously mentioned it took the four of us the best part of a month to fill No. 1 hangar.  Maybe this is where the £200k is going...

No I don't get the guardians newsletter as the trust only has my Outlook e-mail address (which they dismantled the day I left)  I rely on snippets from other forums, friends and stuff posted on here.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on June 24, 2017, 07:55:32 AM
Just gets better dosent it!!! >:D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Fonseca on June 24, 2017, 09:56:31 AM
So the aircraft can stay in hangar 1 till August. Maybe longer - maybe not. Good. Glad we cleared up that confusion :D. Either way it does appear all the other gear will be moved... (if my newsletter cryptography skills are up to scratch ;) ). So once those magic containers materialise -
"Who's going to move all the spares?" Good question. There are lots of big, heavy yet fragile items to be moved. Do I detect the whiff of another appeal in the air? 'Doncaster spares lift' anyone? A chance to recall the heady days of 1948-49? ;). Or will the teams of new Vulcan volunteers find the last part of their qualification course is actually moving lots of items (misc) from a to b? ::)

P.S How long has Donald Trump had an emoji?   O:-)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on June 24, 2017, 09:06:34 PM
I heard some good news today (not from any one connected to the trust - of course)  The anticipated increase in freight has suffered a bit of a set back.  The daily amazon flight has been cancelled (despite Amazon building a huge new warehouse 5 miles down the road)  and a second daily flight has also been cancelled.

I may be reading between the lines but if the airport is not handling so much freight they won't need the extra space in hangar one.

Nice to hear (via someones facebook post) that 558 was out for an engine run today.  Another secret engine run?  It's starting to look like the Shackleton saga all over again....

There can't be much of that £200k left now what have the trust spent it all on?

Oh, and for the benefit of a few posters on UKARse I would love to have carried on with 558 but I feel like I am not wanted (and I don't think I was really wanted for quite a long time).  You think because I earnt a living doing something you would gladly do for free I should now volunteer every spare moment?  Well apart from feeling extremely unwanted I think that my family may have something to say if I now start spending any spare time when I'm not working in Wales up in Doncaster. 
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on June 25, 2017, 04:31:32 PM
I heard some good news today (not from any one connected to the trust - of course)  The anticipated increase in freight has suffered a bit of a set back.  The daily amazon flight has been cancelled (despite Amazon building a huge new warehouse 5 miles down the road)  and a second daily flight has also been cancelled.

I may be reading between the lines but if the airport is not handling so much freight they won't need the extra space in hangar one.

Nice to hear (via someones facebook post) that 558 was out for an engine run today.  Another secret engine run? It's starting to look like the Shackleton saga all over again....

There can't be much of that £200k left now what have the trust spent it all on?

Oh, and for the benefit of a few posters on UKARse I would love to have carried on with 558 but I feel like I am not wanted (and I don't think I was really wanted for quite a long time).  You think because I earnt a living doing something you would gladly do for free I should now volunteer every spare moment?  Well apart from feeling extremely unwanted I think that my family may have something to say if I now start spending any spare time when I'm not working in Wales up in Doncaster.

Sam I think you are experiencing what many supporters have felt for a long time.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: hairrig on June 25, 2017, 09:48:35 PM


Amazing...

So when I needed containers to store the Canberra spares there were none available and I was basically told to go away and stop being silly.  Eventually an unwanted container was sourced from a playground scheme.  Now there are local suppliers who are willing to provide containers to house all of the trusts assets?  This will be worth watching.  Who is going to load the containers?  As previously mentioned it took the four of us the best part of a month to fill No. 1 hangar.  Maybe this is where the £200k is going...

No I don't get the guardians newsletter as the trust only has my Outlook e-mail address (which they dismantled the day I left)  I rely on snippets from other forums, friends and stuff posted on here.

Probably waiting for and expecting some sort of windfall payment from the Club too Sam. I bet they can't wait for the final membership to be up for renewal. Makes those events back in October 2015 even more distasteful.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on June 25, 2017, 11:31:36 PM


Sam I think you are experiencing what many supporters have felt for a long time.

The thing is, while I was there I tried to keep as many of the supporters as possible informed.  No the information is for the clique only...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: leslie on June 27, 2017, 04:47:23 PM
The new Hangar is 2 years away at best, so the likelyhood is she will be outside, they maybe able to get her inside within a year but I doubt the hangar will be open for business for at least 2
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on June 27, 2017, 07:53:38 PM


The thing is, while I was there I tried to keep as many of the supporters as possible informed.  No the information is for the clique only...

and you made a very good job of it Sam, many thanks
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on July 04, 2017, 11:34:36 AM
Anything more on this issue Sam ?

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 04, 2017, 02:46:09 PM
The latest I have heard is that all three aircraft will be moved outside at the end of the month....

There is a plan to cover them up with tarpaulins - I can think of no reason to do this other than to try and hide the fact that they are outside.  It certainly will not give them any protection from the weather and judging by the state of the VC 10's when they left Abingdon will only serve to promote the corrosion and degradation.

It seems there is a problem with the planning permission for the land for the new hangar so Iguess they won't be moving in by the end of 2017.

I have heard that there was another secret engine run last week.

I have also heard that 558 has been dinked and is need of some paint repair - if the paint needs to be repaired what has happened to the structure?

It's all looking very like the group that "took over" the Shackleton at Coventry, they then spent all of the money which had been donated having fun trying carrying out runs to train up people who had never been near an aircraft in their lives.

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on July 04, 2017, 03:07:55 PM
I shouldn't think that the owner of the "Swift" will be very happy with this outcome,I doubt he/she signed up for this when the aircraft was placed on long term loan to the Trust,you are correct about the tarpaulins,they will keep moisture in rather than keep it out ! better to not fit it at all !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on July 04, 2017, 07:24:13 PM
 >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: CLIFFORD on July 06, 2017, 01:43:40 PM
we all know that the canopy on 558 leaks, Martin always took a towel with him when he flew, have we got a cover for the canopy like 655?. if not lets get one. :-[
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Tutorboy on July 07, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
Just for the record we flew with small towels not because it was ever wet but because it was often extremely hot!

Bill
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 07, 2017, 05:21:41 PM
The canopy does not leak if the canopy seal is inflated.  The problem with that is you need a a Nitrogen trolley to recharge the system.  The trolley was empty last time I looked and since the trust does not seem too keen to spend any money I wonder if they have been back to the supplier to get refilled bottles.

There is a canopy cover for 558 and also a full set of covers for 163 so I wonder why they are even thinking about shrouding the jets in tarpaulins (unless it is to disguise the fact that they have been dumped outside.)

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: 558_sam on July 11, 2017, 02:11:58 PM

I have also heard that 558 has been dinked and is need of some paint repair - if the paint needs to be repaired what has happened to the structure?


Just wondering where you have heard this from Sam. I haven't seen anything else relating to it.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on July 12, 2017, 09:44:48 AM
The latest I have heard is that all three aircraft will be moved outside at the end of the month....

There is a plan to cover them up with tarpaulins - I can think of no reason to do this other than to try and hide the fact that they are outside.  It certainly will not give them any protection from the weather and judging by the state of the VC 10's when they left Abingdon will only serve to promote the corrosion and degradation.

It seems there is a problem with the planning permission for the land for the new hangar so Iguess they won't be moving in by the end of 2017.

I have heard that there was another secret engine run last week.

I have also heard that 558 has been dinked and is need of some paint repair - if the paint needs to be repaired what has happened to the structure?

It's all looking very like the group that "took over" the Shackleton at Coventry, they then spent all of the money which had been donated having fun trying carrying out runs to train up people who had never been near an aircraft in their lives.

Sam - are you aware that this (and other posts of your's) are being copied and pasted on UKARSE verbatim, this is quoted in full on page 223 of their Vulcan topic by their most un-charming aggressive poster of them all (Dano'Hating if you weren't aware) followed of course by his usual standard of vitriol in reply. There are other smaller quotes elsewhere too, I do hope (but doubt) they have asked your permission to reproduce your statements!

Even by their standards it had become most aggressive and un-savoury on there in the last few days, quite surprised when I looked this morning, hopefully RIAT will prove a temporary distraction over the next day or two for those of them who are above school age although the way they behave I doubt it!

It does make me wonder whether this topic should be moved into a more private section of the forum?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 12, 2017, 02:25:52 PM
Yes I know that they are reading and quoting the comments.

I do look at that forum (and have done for the last six or seven years)  I don't post as the trust frowned upon us (the groundcrew) posting anything on the internet.  They do love to hate us (bit strange for a group of "aviation enthusiasts") but that thread is now over 200 pages - and that is version 3 or 4!

I am quite interested in the comments by one of the posters "Neverfuel" who claims to only have a passing interest in 558 but can somehow name nearly all of the remaining members of staff.  He seems to think that as I was paid to work on 558 I should now be going back every spare moment I have to look after her for nothing.

Leave the thread where it is - hardly anyone comes on here now anyway....
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Paramania on July 12, 2017, 06:58:18 PM
I'm enjoying the squabble - usual arguments, if I could be bothered to read all of them I would probably have even more fun ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 24, 2017, 12:50:48 AM
So the trust have finally got around to employing a proper painter to restore the surface finish on the port side of the Canberra - well they have let him prime it (the only problem is that primer is porous and will absorb the moisture) no idea why they did not let him apply the top coat.  Not that it matters as that skin has a non-standard repair and will need to be replaced - I had written a scheme for that, I wonder if any of the management bothered to keep a copy?

I understand the dink on 558 is to the Red Steer radome nice bit of plastic repair putty and all will be ok....

Seems like the new crowd of volunteers have seen fit to remove Jacqui and Dee's signatures from the skin behind the dog - so long, thanks for all the fish (don't let the door slam you on the arse when you leave)  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

No more news on the new hangar (tarpaulin)  I wonder when the trust will tell their supporters that the jets are going outside for the foreseeable future?

I see that the operations manager is back at work - so I think that is now 10 employees for a charitable trust that exists to inspire the next generation of engineers and designers (while not employing a single engineer)

The hangar looks a lot more empty than it was in February I wonder where all the stuff that had been donated over the years has gone (probably not all into one shipping container and a curtainside trailer.)

Maybe it's time for someone to contact the heritage lottery fund to see what they think of the return on their "investment" now?

And if any one from URARSE reads this - no, I do not post on your forum under any name.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on July 24, 2017, 08:50:20 AM
Well its a sad day for me and Jacqui, Vulcan Scrubbers, we were both so proud to have had the Honour to have been all over 558 and to get to know all the wonderful Engineers.. Up on the wings with a bucket and mop scrubbing her wings and making her shine for all the shows she graced.
At least we can say we were both on the last flight..Just a shame the new volunteers or (Jonny come latelys) have decided to remove our beloved Graffiti..

Still whatever..We have the photo's and memories..


Thankyou Sam for giving us the pleasure of cleaning her!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on July 24, 2017, 08:58:12 AM
All daja vu to me - I felt the same when the VDF names were removed from the nose wheel door years ago.

Things move on - new people get involved, older items get consigned to the bin. Shame but it happens.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on July 24, 2017, 10:37:30 AM
I see that the operations manager is back at work - so I think that is now 10 employees for a charitable trust that exists to inspire the next generation of engineers and designers (while not employing a single engineer)

Who would that be Sam ? >:(

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 25, 2017, 06:42:57 PM
I see the Swift is now back in hangar three.

I bet the owner is very impressed with the way this has all turned out.

Still at least 2excell have a nice grey green jet to show off to their customers in their shinny new home. >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Trev on July 26, 2017, 08:25:27 PM
Hi Sam

Thanks for the update, not what i was hoping to hear so will also be waiting to see
what happens next.
Hope you are well?

Regards Trev
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on July 28, 2017, 08:07:48 PM
And so it came to pass !!

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on July 28, 2017, 08:52:44 PM
 Here's the latest newsletter, she's been kicked out.

 
   





Storage arrangements settled while XH558’s New Hangar build project moves forward
 
 
   


 
 







Thanks to helpful support from airport management and various 3rd parties, the Trust has now arranged medium-term exterior storage for Vulcan XH558 and Canberra WK163.
 



 


 








XH558 will shortly be outside with canopy, intake, exhaust and tyre covers fitted. Library image by Jamie Ewan



 






Over the coming weekend, arrangements will be completed to have the aircraft safely stored in a quiet corner of the airfield surrounded by the containers and covers that will protect their ancillary and ground support equipment. All other non-essential items are in storage elsewhere on the airfield or in the warehouse facility attached to our webstore.


 





Supermarine Swift WK275 on loan to us by the owner as an exhibit has returned under cover to Hangar 3 with the kind support of 2Excel Aviation. Having already had several months of free storage courtesy of the airport, we must state that they continue to be very supportive and have tasked several people to help ensure the transition outdoors goes as smoothly as possible. We thank them most sincerely for their ongoing assistance.





Commenting on the move for the Trust, Robert Pleming stated; “With contractors arriving to start development work on the Cargo handling facilities at Hangar 1 next week, we need to vacate to an exterior storage area that has been prepared over the last few months. We have taken every precaution to safeguard all of the Trust assets during this period while we work towards building the new hangar.




These aircraft were designed to spend most of their operational lives outside, with time spent in a hangar kept to a minimum. We are happy that with the arrangements in place, the projected timescale for completion of the New Hangar and the plan for scheduled periodic ground running of XH558 during the next few months, we will not see any significant deterioration in her current excellent condition.“





Taff Stone, XH558’s crew chief and long serving chief engineer also added: “I’m perfectly happy we can keep XH558 protected in an outdoor environment until such time as she can move into the new hangar. Her non-standard issue gloss paintwork helps! Exploratory work undertaken on Canberra WK163 that exposed bare metal has also been suitably primed and protected, so she is fine too. Having XH558 outside over the coming months is actually easier for our ground handling, since we have several engine runs planned.”
 
 

   
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Paramania on July 28, 2017, 09:51:52 PM
So it's (it is)good news if crew chief thinks it will be ok.  Probably best chaining her down for the winter make sure the wind or snow don't cause unnecessary problems.  Looking forward to hearing that building is starting.  There is loads of crap about never happening on "Dark Side" - they seem to be in a feeding frenzy (as Sam say).  Makes me lmao.

And it's so active! It make me laaarrfff.

Sorry I did correct English again - Thank
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on July 28, 2017, 10:38:11 PM
Dark Side ????,with two posts under your belt I doubt very much that it makes you an expert on the subject,ask Sam and the dedicated volunteers (not the new batch) what the truth of the matter is !!

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 28, 2017, 11:13:04 PM
Unlike here...

Medium term storage?  What ever happened to "we'll be in the new hangar by the end of 2017 - with tours and events starting in early 2018" (Andrew Edmonson in my redundancy interview)

Safely stored in a quiet corner of the airfield?  That will be the engine running pan (with the Jetstream). For quiet corner read "out of sight, out of mind"

The trusts thanks the airport for their support?  I would think both parties are both wishing they had never met.

"These aircraft were designed to spend most of their lives outside"  Yes Robert, but while they were outside they were in use with power applied almost everyday and flying once in awhile which keeps the air circulating and prevents moisture building up in all the crevices.  558 will be run once in a blue moon and 163 will not run for the foreseeable future.

The good news is that they are not going to cover the aircraft with Tarps a originally planned.  The reason is that when they priced up the tarps they found they could not afford it.  What the hell did they spend £200,000 on?  I have a feeling it was the wages for the remaining staff - which they keep adding to.

Looking forward to hearing that building has started?  It would be nice to hear that the the land has been purchased or maybe planning permission has been made.

This is like watching a car crash in slow motion and it makes me so angry.

I think the management lost interest in this a long time ago and are just hanging on as long as there is money coming in to pay their wages.  For the last six months we were in hangar three we never saw them - they just hid themselves up in their ivory tower office (behind a locked door so that we could not go up and bother them)

I can think of no reason why they are so determined to kill off all of their support the way they treated the club is a disgrace - after the final flight they would not even let Jane and Malcolm into the hangar!

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on July 29, 2017, 07:55:56 AM
The whole debacle STINKS!!!! Some should be held accountable for how this has panned out!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Pujgnie on July 29, 2017, 11:46:37 AM

This is like watching a car crash in slow motion and it makes me so angry.


Nail hit firmly on the head there Sam.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on July 29, 2017, 09:00:17 PM
I wonder if the management will ever admit it might have been a better idea to retire her back to brunty  ::)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 30, 2017, 12:49:05 AM
Not likely,  for what it's worth I don't think Brunty was the right place for her either.

I also don't think she should have been retired at all.

A plan was presented to the management but they did not act on it.

I believe that 558 would still be flying if we had pursued a different course of action.

A lot of other stuff  that should have happened never did and I wonder now how serious we were about any of it....
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Paramania on July 30, 2017, 02:23:24 AM
Not likely,  for what it's worth I don't think Brunty was the right place for her either.

I also don't think she should have been retired at all.

A plan was presented to the management but they did not act on it.

I believe that 558 would still be flying if we had pursued a different course of action.

A lot of other stuff  that should have happened never did and I wonder now how serious we were about any of it....

I buy you a beer or too to hear that plan Sad Sam.

You must know things. I would want to hear it possibly?

Return me know?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Paramania on July 30, 2017, 02:43:33 AM
Dark Side ????,with two posts under your belt I doubt very much that it makes you an expert on the subject,ask Sam and the dedicated volunteers (not the new batch) what the truth of the matter is !!

Mike
I thank you for you coment Mike,  I am sorry for new, but follow sometime.  I hope not problem.  I as well follow site "UKAR". It and me will laugh out loud. You as well?

I think "Sad Sam", some story to tell - yes?

I no wish to offend, is not welcome here?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: smiler on July 30, 2017, 07:13:56 AM
Well its a sad day for me and Jacqui, Vulcan Scrubbers, we were both so proud to have had the Honour to have been all over 558 and to get to know all the wonderful Engineers.. Up on the wings with a bucket and mop scrubbing her wings and making her shine for all the shows she graced.
At least we can say we were both on the last flight..Just a shame the new volunteers or (Jonny come latelys) have decided to remove our beloved Graffiti..

Still whatever..We have the photo's and memories..


Thankyou Sam for giving us the pleasure of cleaning her!!!

Hi Dee

I'm surprised you would think I would allow that bit of art to be removed off the aircraft!

Yes I have had the volunteers who were helping me over the winter maintenance clean the aircraft, however one patch was 'out of bounds'

I had and still do appreciate the work you scrubbers have done over the past and have taken a picture yesterday during the run.

Take care and hope to see you again sometime

Taff  ;D

Unfortunately the upload folder is full so I can't post the picture!!  Admin please can you sort this out or if you would like to pm me Dee with your email I will sent it to you.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on July 30, 2017, 07:54:31 AM
Hello Taff!! PM sent and thankyou for keeping our Graffiti, it does mean a lot to me and Jacqui!! xx
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on July 30, 2017, 09:44:41 AM
Hello Taff!! PM sent and thankyou for keeping our Graffiti, it does mean a lot to me and Jacqui!! xx

Ditto what Dee says Taff!!!

Thanks for keeping our little bit of scribble on 558, I can't describe how much it means to my fellow Scrubber and I!!! ;D

We both love and miss the old girl, we had some wonderful times in the hanger and memories that no one can take from us  ;)

And we still can't thank all the engineers enough for making those memories happen  :) :) :)

X x x

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Lew on July 30, 2017, 09:11:54 PM
Not been here for a few years, not going to make any comments on the car crash in motion, but what I will do is pay the greatest of respects to all the engineers in the part they played in the history of getting 558 in the air and keeping her there until the trust pulled the plug.

It was great to be apart of the team in a photographic way and learning the ropes before I moved south.

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on July 31, 2017, 07:51:56 AM
Not been here for a few years, not going to make any comments on the car crash in motion, but what I will do is pay the greatest of respects to all the engineers in the part they played in the history of getting 558 in the air and keeping her there until the trust pulled the plug.

It was great to be apart of the team in a photographic way and learning the ropes before I moved south.

Hello Lew nice to see you popping in!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Tutorboy on July 31, 2017, 08:36:00 AM
Hi Sam, if only the Red Steer was still working, they might have seen it coming!!!  8)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on July 31, 2017, 09:47:50 AM
Hi Sam, if only the Red Steer was still working, they might have seen it coming!!!  8)

PMSL

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on July 31, 2017, 10:07:24 AM
Not likely,  for what it's worth I don't think Brunty was the right place for her either

I noticed this comment Sam and back in 2012 there was a long topic discussing it, I had one or two doubts about Brunty then because of the commercial growth there. It's pretty packed with stored airliners nowadays.

I ran a poll on that thread (I expect some of our remaining visitors conrtibuted votes) and my choice at that time was Yeovilton, these were my reasons:
1: It already has a museum open to the public
2: It has an annual air show which would provide an opportunity for fast taxi runs without extra costs of setting up for a unique event
3: It is in the south west which is totally void of Vulcans at present - the nearest are either Hendon or Wellesbourne so there would be a uniqueness factor missing elsewhere in the country
4: with all the defence cuts there is probably spare hangarage there which could be used to develop the VE3 and get 558 under cover at the lowest cost (i.e. not building something new)
5: not a commercial airport so would not interfere with commercial operations

for me this would be my choice if Bruntingthorpe was ruled out , I think it comes nearer to ticking all the boxes and in some ways the options make it better than Brunty - discuss? I hope so and I hope the powers that be will be taking note of the poll and comments.


the poll was done at a time when the Trust were after feedback and not surprisingly Bruntingthorpe was top but Yeovilton 2nd with over 100 votes cast in total.

here's a link to the topic and poll: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=4915.0

so where did you feel was right then Sam (reply here or on the poll topic)

- there were some very constructive comments and arguments for all 10 sites on the poll which were picked from a previous topic that had numerous ideas, I did rationalise it down to what seemed to be the most popular and realistic options but I think it was a good reflection of feeling.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on July 31, 2017, 10:58:28 PM
Hi Sam, if only the Red Steer was still working, they might have seen it coming!!!  8)

The most annoying thing was that they knew it was coming about this time last year.

They just chose not to share the information with us low lifes...

I was told in August last year that 2 excell wanted to move into hangar 3 and 558 was going to be evicted.

The management just let us carry on as if nothing would happen - they have the attitude "we are Vulcan to the sky - we can do what we like"

I feel very guilty about the way I let the students and cadets involved in the build a plane project believe they were really going to achieve something.  I even had a meeting with the technical college (along with Andrew Edmondson and Ian Straw) about taking Jack Barrat on as an apprentice.  At the time I could not work out why Andrew and Ian were so reluctant to push the scheme along - I guess they already knew we were finished.

Andy I believed that Doncaster was the right place to retire the jet as I foolishly believed the party line.

Yeovilton would have been a good call but I'm not sure the Navy would have welcomed here with open arms (and I'm prety sure they would not have wanted the trust with all it's baggage)

The pictures I saw on face book yesterday show her not down on the old 101 Sqn dispersal (where people would have been able to see her as their holiday jets taxi past) but properly hidden next to the tanker pool - talk about out of sight, out of mind...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: arnk on July 31, 2017, 11:58:30 PM
Cheer up everybody.  Its not 1962.  This will distract you all for a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lwyv_RXR_A

Al
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 01, 2017, 04:33:43 PM
The pictures I saw on face book yesterday show her not down on the old 101 Sqn dispersal (where people would have been able to see her as their holiday jets taxi past) but properly hidden next to the tanker pool - talk about out of sight, out of mind...

Yes you are correct Sam,I have been over to RHA today and she is hidden away in front of the sewage farm and next to the tanker pool,very difficult to see from anywhere accessible to the public,all the ground equipment is under or around her,the Canberra is to the right of the crash gates in the same area in front of what appears to be a load of scrap cars but hard to see once again,I do have pictures but due to restricted access they are not great and also compounded by the onset of a thunderstorm with torrential rain !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on August 02, 2017, 07:52:57 AM
 >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:Disgusted and angry doesnt even come close!!!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 02, 2017, 09:32:48 AM
I have been over to RHA today and she is hidden away in front of the sewage farm and next to the tanker pool,very difficult to see from anywhere accessible to the public
Mike

Thanks for the update Mike

I honestly don't know where to start - or express the total disgust, dismay, anger and sadness I'm feeling at the way this is all ending. It's like watching a slow, painful, lingering death.............

So many people put so much into 558 that they should have had a say in where she was retired to and NOT THIS! She should be accessible to ALL!!!!!

What happened to the 'Peoples Plane'? Would the 'People' have dumped her in the middle of a sewerage farm out of sight of all the 'People' who have donated so much money and time during her restoration and flying years? Absolutely disgraceful!!!!!  >:( >:( >:(

On the front page of the VTTS it states 'XH558 ceased flying in October 2015, but that is now the beginning of a new EXCITING chapter in her story' - give me strength!!!!!! In the middle of sewerage farm!!!!!!!

Also it still states 'HONOURING THE PAST, INSPIRING THE FUTURE' - How does that work now? Neither statement is true!!!!!!

And - 'OUR MISSION IS TO INSPIRE THE NEXT GENERATION OF SCIENTISTS, ENGINEERS, DESIGNERS AND AVIATORS'

How can the Trust inspire future engineers when they saw right to get rid of the engineers they had? Why do the Trust need so many paid staff now? What happened to the taxi runs we were told would happen? Why have they let it come to this? Why can't they be straight with us and tell us what's REALLY going on? Plus so many other questions that will never be answered.......

And why have they dumped 558 in the middle of a sh1t farm for pitys sake?  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Rant over for now but very liable to flare up at a moments notice..........
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 02, 2017, 10:07:08 AM
Some pictures from yesterday (excuse the poor quality due to access issues and rain)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%206_1.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%206_1.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%205_1.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%205_1.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%202.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%202.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%204.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%204.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%201.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%201.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%203.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%203.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%208.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%208.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/Crop%207.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/Crop%207.jpg.html)

Happier days !

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/sam1.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/sam1.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/P8114233.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/P8114233.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/P8264349.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/P8264349.jpg.html)

(http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n374/StAthanlecky/vulcupsidedown.jpg) (http://s337.photobucket.com/user/StAthanlecky/media/vulcupsidedown.jpg.html)

Sad Times and Memories

Mike



Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 02, 2017, 12:02:23 PM
There's very little more to do than withdraw any further financial support by cancelling my remaining direct debits & standing orders.

If Sam says there was a plan for keeping 558 flying, it's hard to see after the aircrew's review of the Prestwick undercarriage emergency. But, as when Concorde was axed, were they towing the "party line"?  There is no doubt that the Shoreham crash was a big spanner in the works.  The engineers have been treated like s*"t and not the first time either.  I seem to recall that during the restoration to flight, flipflopman was not a big supporter of the establishment, but please correct me if I'm out of line.

However, a reality check please.....

XM655 at Wellesbourne has been out in all weathers ever since she touched down in February 1984.  Despite years of neglect by the previous owner, MaPS are now doing a very good job of keeping the jet serviceable enough for fast taxi and ground running events.  So there is nothing to stop a similar group of volunteers taking 558 along the same route, other than the "Trustees" whoever they are now and, of course, the owners of RHAD who happen to be Peel Group.  This organisation also has connections with the Bridgwater Canal in the North West and Liverpool Docks.  Any narrowboat owners like myself will know that they have form in restricting pleasure cruising on their waters.

I had the pleasure of "working" with Sam, Ray, Taff et al when 558 was based at Brize.  I enjoyed the brief work in the hangar at Lyneham in a very cold and foggy winter!  I helped on the phone when pledges were needed and organised a fund raising gig with my band.  It wasn't as much as some of you guys out there but I felt I had done something. I couldn't get up to Doncaster to volunteer so have moved on.

We continue to be classed in the mushroom family - in the dark and fed on BS.  Like a bereavement, time will surely heal and we should all look back on the impossible dream that became a reality.  You can't take that away from Dr. Pleming.

Smile because it happened.

Kevin


Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 02, 2017, 02:17:21 PM
For those interested in the aims of VTTS as published in the Charities Commission official web site have a look at this (in particular the first page)
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/SIR/ENDS48/0001101948_SIR_20121031_E.PDF

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on August 02, 2017, 02:47:19 PM
For those interested in the aims of VTTS as published in the Charities Commission official web site have a look at this (in particular the first page)
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/SIR/ENDS48/0001101948_SIR_20121031_E.PDF

Mike
[/quoteNot much of anything applies to how she is being treated now then!!?
Pity we cant have a complete change of management!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 02, 2017, 04:21:27 PM
Maybe not, but we could bring to the attention of the media by an open letter from ex VTTS now FG's condemning the fact that the trust are failing in their stated aim to have retired the jet to a National Museum in perpetuity. 
 
What comeback, if any, can the Charities Commission invoke?

Wasn't FG status to include events specific to us?  Well and truly had then.

Should BBC East Midlands be made aware?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: PA28 on August 02, 2017, 05:52:38 PM
What is the Trust trying to do as clearly laid out in all the newsletters since February?

Yes it was a shock to have to come out of Hangar 3, but with no other hangarage and an unairworthy aircraft, the options are.......????

Like everyone else, (and as has happened in the past) we keep battling on until the better times are reached again.

A bit more positivity on this site would not go amiss. (Personal opinion..)     
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 02, 2017, 06:44:52 PM
What is the Trust trying to do as clearly laid out in all the newsletters since February?

And they clearly said in previous newsletters that 558 would fast taxi......................

A bit more positivity on this site would not go amiss. (Personal opinion..)     

Having a jest??? What on earth is there to be positive about?? Gimme a clue!!!!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 02, 2017, 06:55:18 PM
I personally see nothing that the Trust is doing to be positive about !,it should have been obvious to the Trust that the income stream would plummet after the final flight and the disgraceful way that supporters and even worse the Club Committee was treated over that particular debacle !
Money appeared to be spent like it was going out of fashion with no thought for the future,staffing levels and wages remained far to high for a non flying aircraft and even now the level of paid employees is supposedly ten or so with a wage bill that remains undisclosed by the Trust !
Perhaps a bit of transparency is required here Ian ! before asking for continued funding for this bottomless pit of a project give us a few facts that we can consider and convince us that our money isn't being wasted and please don't quote "Business Confidentiality" at us,please remember that this is a charity and not a private business for the privileged few ! If I can know how much my MP earns and what a Staff Nurse takes home then I should be able to have access to how much the Trust pays it's staff !

A few questions.

1.Why was the Club Committee excluded from the final flight ?
2.Who is currently employed or receiving remuneration of any sort from Trust funds ?
3.How much is the current wage bill including expenses and retainer fees etc ?
4.How cost effective are the current batch of Air Show attendances by the Trust Trailer after deducting costs ?
5.What are the current cash reserves of the Trust ?

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 02, 2017, 06:56:40 PM
What is the Trust trying to do as clearly laid out in all the newsletters since February?

And they clearly said in previous newsletters that 558 would fast taxi......................

A bit more positivity on this site would not go amiss. (Personal opinion..)     





Having a jest??? What on earth is there to be positive about?? Gimme a clue!!!!!!

What she said
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on August 02, 2017, 09:38:27 PM
I aint donated since about 6 months after she stopped flying, and wont donate until I get something in return like a taxy run  >:( ???
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on August 02, 2017, 09:41:59 PM
Latest Newsletter 'more money please'

link
   
https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/k2xMah88nIW0i3toFT18Vqyi1GPwQVYASPkGmgMK2p4 (https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/k2xMah88nIW0i3toFT18Vqyi1GPwQVYASPkGmgMK2p4)


or read below

 




 
 


 

Your unique opportunity to have your chosen name commemorated
 
 

 
 

   


 


   


ADD YOUR NAME OR THAT OF ANOTHER TO A LIMITED AVAILABILITY COMMEMORATIVE WING PLAQUE TO MARK THE IMMINENT 10th ANNIVERSARY OF FIRST POST-RESTORATION FLIGHT ON 18th OCTOBER



Help mark that occasion nearly 10 years ago when Vulcan XH558 once again returned to the skies.


 

   


It was a day that many thought they would never-ever see. After years of uncertainty, advances and set-backs, but through the determination of a small team supported by thousands of willing donors and the vital assistance of technical partners, Vulcan XH558 took to the skies again, 
14½ years after her last flight in RAF service.



To this day, it is perhaps the most complex and demanding aircraft restoration ever completed – anywhere in the world.




Although sadly no longer able to fly, the project set the benchmark for future restorations. We are determined to celebrate the achievement, as we aim to secure not only XH558’s future, but also the prospect of other heritage aviation projects in the new hangar that will give the aviation community and wider general public access to aircraft like never before - with the exciting vision of a restoration and operating facility that will keep other heritage aircraft not only on display, but airborne and at air displays in the years to come.




Once XH558 is settled in her new home, the Trust will turn its attention to the restoration of Canberra WK163; we are already considering the operation of other loaned aircraft on the display circuit next year.



 

   






From now until October 1st we are offering supporters and

members of the public a unique opportunity – to have their name on

the very wing that lifted XH558 back into the air.

 
 
 



For a £30 donation you will be honoured with a name on XH558’s Wing, together with a named certificate confirming this, which makes it ideal not only as a collectable keepsake, but as a gift to a relative or friend.



From next week, we will post out certificates with your chosen name as a receipt for your donation.
 

   


 


(Picture © John Dibbs)
 
 

 

   


You might also like to dedicate a name in memory to a lost loved one, or a past member of the family who served in the V-Force or other services. Perhaps a family member was employed by Avro or there is another connection with XH558 over her lifetime?



We have allocated two areas of grey on the wing, upon which we will apply small silver letters to the plaques, recognising the ‘Tin’ anniversary of 10 years since that day.
 
 


Only visible upon close viewing, these will not detract from the aesthetic appearance of the aircraft and will remain in place for her lifetime, being replaced if the surfaces are painted in future. Your name could be discreetly marked on the underside of XH558’s Wing, here seen clearly when on a photoshoot in 2015 over The Solent.
 

   


   
 




DONATE HERE TO ADD

YOUR CHOSEN NAME
 
 
 
   
 

   






The plaques will be printed and fitted to XH558 in time for the unveiling on the 10th Anniversary
18th October with a copy of all names also available online on that date.
 
 
 

   


 

   



 
 

This commemorative opportunity was not available during XH558’s flying life, since MoD and CAA regulations on ex-military markings meant we had to keep her external appearance in as near to original RAF markings as possible. The only dispensation to this came in 2010, when on the occasion of her 50th birthday, she was christened
‘The Spirit of Great Britain’ as a mark of respect to all those that willed her back to flight; in recognition of the remarkable place she holds in historic aviation and the excellence of British aeronautical design and engineering.




Your support for this plaque will enable us to continue working to secure the new home for XH558 and a brighter future for heritage aircraft preservation, restoration and operation.





A test plaque with sample names fitted to the aircraft last month to give you a visual idea of how your names will appear.

 
 

   





ONLINE PUBLIC UNVEILING OF THE PLAQUES ON THE ANNIVERSARY – Wednesday 18th October 
 

 
 

   




This opportunity closes at midnight on Sunday October 1st, to allow time for coordination of artwork, printing and installation in time.
 

 


   
 




DONATE HERE TO ADD

YOUR CHOSEN NAME
 
 
 
   
 




Celebrate the achievement!
Join the party by leaving your chosen name as a supporter of XH558.
 

 

   


Can you add Gift Aid? Telling us that we can claim Gift Aid on your donation makes £30 worth £37.50 and does not cost you any extra. If you are a U.K, Tax Payer, we can claim this back on your behalf. Just indicate if we can claim this when making your donation by using the appropriate choice in the listing. Thank you.
 

   



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Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 02, 2017, 11:31:04 PM
PA28,

As I said earlier, the team at Wellesbourne have achieved with so little money compared with what continues to be asked for to keep a similar non flying tin triangle in so called "fully operational and fit to fly" condition......why? Right now, there is no difference between the airframes as they are both permanently on the ground.  558's star status ended when her wheels finally hit the deck.

Does anyone out here in the real world believe that another [WK163] so-called legend will ever become airborne on joe public's bankroll?

If, and its a big IF, the powers that be had put a case forward to support the return to flight of AVRO Lancaster Just Jane NX611, you might have had far more grass roots favour. Oh and been a bit  more up front and honest with us supporters.

So where is the answer to the BIG question..why was the jet not flown into a Heritage  Museum like what it said in the objectives of the trust.

So many top dogs in denial. And the world's best known and last ever flying Vulcan has been consigned to a corner of a field. But remember MaPS!

Positivity - emperor's new clothes - politikspeak - you couldn't make it up.

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 03, 2017, 08:51:49 AM
I always worried that the funding wouldn't last to finance the grand ETNA scheme and that it would all end in tears. There were discussions re the sustainability of future funding here back in 2015: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7439.15

PA28 wrote the following: Before such monies are granted, the various backers have to be convinced that the team running it is right and that the business plan is achievable - ensuring success on many fronts.

The Trust is part-way along that road and is aiming high.  Good luck I say
.

I posted the following reply: I would have rather hoped that with 558 now unable to leave Doncaster that the Trust would be all or virtually all of the way along that road otherwise there would be some doubt as to whether the aims can be achieved.

Cast your minds back 8 years or so and all the talk was of simply obtaining a major sponsor (and the thought appeared to be that it would be easy) and all would be rosy and the annual scratching for funds from the public would not be needed, history shows different and the BIG question is, what if those backers cannot be convinced? I hope the Trust's final act is not to sell of 1" squares of 558's wings to settle the debts. I'm afraid I still feel a lower risk option for the final resting place should have been sought.


it really does seem that all those chickens are now coming home to roost, with those sad pics of 558 parked next to the sewage works, having worked in the water industry for 40 years I know what a nice environment they are (some are actually okay but they always smell) so it's almost a case of that old phrase 'always in the s*1t, just the depth that varies - it seems that 558 is now in the deeper extremes.
The fact that the Trust gambled on grounding 558 at Finningley when flying ceased without guaranteed funding for sustainable plans is lamentable, it was obvious that direct debits would soon dry up, the goodwill of the former club membership lost in a new but floundering guardian scheme, yes many of the ex. club members signed up as founder guardians on the basis of promises of special benefits but how many will re-join now those promises have failed AND how is it ever likely to now draw new members to the guardian scheme. It's now out of sight and out of mind except for those few who really care.

As was pointed out earlier in this topic, the heritage document document stated it's aims as:
At the end of its flying life, to retire the aircraft to a National Museum in perpetuity, surely an established sustainable museum would have been a far safer option than a pipedream that is looking more and more of a remote possibility
it also stated:
To provide access to the aircraft for the widest audience; to involve the public in experiencing the aircraft, okay it has been available for the public but only at a very high price for the experience days, - far beyond the pocket of the average joe public, the prices charged all have an extra nought or two on the end compared to other establishments. An easily accessible location NOT on a working commercial airport had far more chance of ever achieving that. Even if taxi runs were ever achieved then they too would not be in the same price bracket as the CWJ days or Wellesbourne wings and wheels but priced as an exclusive day out for the prawn sandwich brigade as that type have often been described. Far from the stated aims in the heritage document 'Summary Information Return 2012', and now totally unachievable as there is no way out of Doncaster (at least not a palatable one), sadly it's best chance of survival is to be dis-assembled and moved to another, sorry a museum albeit with the acceptance that it will only ever be a static exhibit otherwise it could end up rotting it's days away unseen by anyone except those with very deep pockets and a lacking sense of smell.
The further away it is from the public eye the less likely it is that people will continue to support it financially when they see nothing in return, as I said earlier the guardians will slowly stop re-newing  (the take up on the first renewal demands will be interesting but no doubt a glossy spin will be put on it) and all that core support will gradually ebb away. People will simply look for a similar project with better access at a much lower price and possibly closer to their homes - the Vulcan doesn't come to then any more, it can't, they have to go to it and for some that journey even when it's in a hangar on show is just too far. The only thing that is different is the number on the tail and the memories - the Trust can't rely on that for ever.
do I feel let down - yes, do I feel disappointed - partly yes (because of all those memories) but almost no because I feared this could be the outcome without funds in the bank whether or not the hangar remained available.

Just brighten things up a bit here's a memory of far happier days:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4318/36046350711_739dc2238d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WVhYen)0721 plan view vulcan (https://flic.kr/p/WVhYen) by Andrew Goldsmith (https://www.flickr.com/photos/125470545@N07/), on Flickr

(ignore the date on the watermark, I had to re-do everything when PB decided it didn't like me anymore) ;)

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 03, 2017, 10:21:52 AM
If anyone (and I doubt many use this forum now) has concerns about the way that VTTS is operating as a charity this link can be used.

http://forms.charitycommission.gov.uk/raising-concerns/

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 03, 2017, 02:32:43 PM

And why have they dumped 558 in the middle of a sh1t farm for pitys sake?  >:( >:(

may I confidently predict that the next special offer from the trust newsletter with be Vulcan endorsed compost?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on August 03, 2017, 09:13:37 PM
Or a piece of scrap Vulcan for a price.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 05, 2017, 08:45:11 AM
Or a piece of scrap Vulcan for a price.

hopefully it will never come to that.

now, back to my working life....
regular readers may remember that i worked in the water industry as a project manager on construction projects, some 'clean/drinking water projects' the term 'clean' used to differentiate it from the other 'dirty' water projects that involved treatment of sewage. I expect you wonder what all this has to do with a Vulcan especially early on a Saturday morning - read on.
With 558 parked next to a sewage works which apparently has several large tanks has anyone looked in detail at what those tanks are? Well in the sewage treatment process we had the water to treat and also the solids which we termed sludge (if you saw it you'd understand why). At this point apologies to anybody reading this over breakfast ;). The water which was separated out was quite easy to treat as long as there wasn't a high element of industrial waste in it but the sludge was the bain of our lives, expensive to treat and expensive to transport around, One way of treating sludge was to heat it up in a big tank called a digester and 'cook it' - still enjoying your breakfast?, which killed off the nasty bugs etc and at the same time generated methane (as I do after a curry but without the heat) and as a result these tanks had to be classified exclusion zones with only permit entry and anything capable of generating a spark left outside, even mobile phones, all to prevent exclusion becoming explosion. If and I don't know for sure if there is or not there is one of these on the site then I'm surprised that running up a hot jet engine very close by is considered a good idea with concentrations of methane around, I suppose the lack of reheat does reduce the risk but this still doesn't seem a good location for doing this sort of thing.

as an aside some of those gasses the process produces (hydrogen sulphide in particular) are quite corrosive in the right concentrations but I'll leave that for another day.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 06, 2017, 03:48:43 PM
So the latest masterpiece in marketing has landed.

Am I missing the point but if the names will only be visible upon close viewing (given that the only way you can see the aircraft is by trespassing on the waterboards land - and even then you will still be a couple of hundred feet away the wrong side of a chain link fence)  why bother giving the trust £30.00 for something you will never see?  How much does the trust expect to generate from this latest fundraising wheeze?  What will the money be spent on this time?  My guess is it will go the same way as the £200,000 generated in the spring (as far as I can tell, keeping the management in a job for as long as possible) how exactly will the money "contribute to the trusts work to secure a new home for 558" - I thought that was what the earlier £200,000 was for...  Will this just be a recurring theme trotted out every six months or so until the fictitious new hangar appears?

“Vulcan XH558 can still pay a very important role as an icon of our aeronautical heritage and as a beacon for other heritage aviation projects in a new hangar that will give the aviation community and the wider general public access to aircraft like never before - with the exciting vision of a restoration and operating facility that will keep other heritage aircraft not only on display, but airborne and at air displays in the years to come. Once XH558 is settled in her new home, the Trust will turn its attention to the restoration of Canberra WK163; we are already considering the operation of other loaned aircraft on the display circuit next year,” Robert declared.

The trust is considering the operation of other loaned aircraft next year?  Who is going to look after these loaned aircraft?  There are no engineers left in the employment of the trust.  I understand that all of my authorisations have been kept up to date and I was forced to leave my stamp behind when I was sacked from the company.  I shall be very annoyed if I find out that my authorisations and signature are being used to certify work which I have not carried out.

The trust has kept on three (possibly four) people to look after the webstore which was meant to generate the funds to keep paying the staff.  Given the amount of stock that was shoe horned into Delta court when Hinckley shut I wonder how that is going?  I see there are still over 350 items available and they are now advertising "the biggest ever sale with over 90% reductions"!  Seriously - 90% reductions?  The stuff must have been stupidly over priced in the first place.  Still I'm sure the stock all but flew off the shelves of Bobs bargain basement at the shows - the staff all looked very smart (in yet another "new for this year only" polo shirt) when I saw them at Fairford there were eight people at the serving hatch - shame that six of them were staff!

The car crash continues and I am getting even more angry.  Ian wants positive?  As Jacqui and Mike said "What the hell is there to be positive about?"
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on August 06, 2017, 08:53:15 PM
Quite a bold statement all things considered.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Paramania on August 07, 2017, 12:05:39 AM
Quote
I understand that all of my authorisations have been kept up to date and I was forced to leave my stamp behind when I was sacked from the company.  I shall be very annoyed if I find out that my authorisations and signature are being used to certify work which I have not carried out.
I'm no expert, but is it really just a "stamp" that certifies work on aircraft?

I thought there must be more oversight than that, I hope there is - otherwise I might have to rethink the idea of the first holiday abroad in ages!

Surely, aircraft workers have to be supervised by a competent person.  That competent person, surely has to be authorised by an authorising body, who is regulated by the CAA?  Please tell me that someone can't just "forge" signatures and use someone else's stamp :-[

Or was was just a weekends worth of beer talking, because that seems quite a serious accusation?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 07, 2017, 08:50:37 AM
Just seen someone has posted this on Farcebook:-

"I have been in touch with the HLF.

They have been in discussions with VTTS, and are planning to visit VTTS very soon to discuss the current situation."

Could be interesting..............?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 07, 2017, 08:51:26 AM
With literally hundreds of job cards to sign and then countersign, there may well be a stamp involved. I'm sure there would be a space for the actual oversigning engineer's signature or, maybe the signature is part of the stamp, which Sam seems to state.  It's a bit like the Quality Control [QC] stamp.  Any use of Sam's, or any other of the engineers' "stamps would simply be fraud.  As an ex RAF engineer, I would have insisted that the stamp was destroyed in my presence.

You don't want to imagine what could happen if something went catastrophically wrong during an engine ground run which left joe public and volunteers with loss of life or limb.  No insurance in the world would cover the compensation or litigation against the Trust and The Health and Safety Executive would drag the trustees through the courts under section 3 of the H&S Act.[Failure to ensure no harm to third parties].

On a much more positive note, see Funtera's thread on a recent visit to XM655 at Wellesbourne. Just off the M40 and relatively central England.  Invest your pennies in membership of MaPS and you can visit and go into the cockpit any Saturday. Or even get involved with their work on and off the jet. [It's actually free to visit and then for a small donation you can go into the cockpit as well, but you get the picture - you're getting something for your "buck"]

As I've said many times before, the guys and gals there do a brilliant job of keeping a Vulcan alive and kicking. More than can be said for the powers that be in Doncaster.  They are on a different planet
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 07, 2017, 08:53:09 AM
Re HLF, or a Whitewash?  Dr P et al seem to be covered in Teflon
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 07, 2017, 09:28:44 AM
I thank you for you coment Mike,  I am sorry for new, but follow sometime.  I hope not problem.  I as well follow site "UKAR". It and me will laugh out loud. You as well?

I think "Sad Sam", some story to tell - yes?

I no wish to offend, is not welcome here?

I'm no expert, but is it really just a "stamp" that certifies work on aircraft?

I thought there must be more oversight than that, I hope there is - otherwise I might have to rethink the idea of the first holiday abroad in ages!

Surely, aircraft workers have to be supervised by a competent person.  That competent person, surely has to be authorised by an authorising body, who is regulated by the CAA?  Please tell me that someone can't just "forge" signatures and use someone else's stamp :-[

Or was was just a weekends worth of beer talking, because that seems quite a serious accusation?

Blimey Paramania!! Don't mean to offend either but this is only your fifth post and it's astounding how your use of English grammar has improved over your previous posts...........................!!

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 07, 2017, 09:37:07 AM
It's all to do with Brexit Jacqui  ;D

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: PaulH2015 on August 07, 2017, 11:36:57 AM

I'm no expert, but is it really just a "stamp" that certifies work on aircraft?


The stamp is effectively the signature of the engineers who carry out the work and inspected it as they include a unique number that relates to the person involved, together with him writing his surname in capitals, if the copies of the job sheets I have from a day spent working on 558 are anything to go by.  As such there would have to be a record of who that stamp number applies to, and one would expect that record to be updated when an engineer moves on, or the stamp destroyed and new ones created for engineers joining.  Without that, anyone could use an 'old' stamp and write the name of the previous engineer.  However as those 'signatures' are also dated, and presumably (surely!) the dates people leave are recorded, it wouldn't take much to bring to light fraudulent use in the event of a problem and subsequent investigation.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 07, 2017, 02:23:40 PM
It begs the question as to why the Trust retained the stamps,are they really expecting that the sacked Engineers might some day return to the VTTS fold ?

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Pujgnie on August 07, 2017, 06:47:33 PM
This is getting interesting ............. (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/popcorn2.gif)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 07, 2017, 06:54:20 PM
This is getting interesting ............. (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/popcorn2.gif)

Fence Sitter  ;D

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: smiler on August 07, 2017, 07:19:19 PM

The trust is considering the operation of other loaned aircraft next year?  Who is going to look after these loaned aircraft?  There are no engineers left in the employment of the trust.  I understand that all of my authorisations have been kept up to date and I was forced to leave my stamp behind when I was sacked from the company.  I shall be very annoyed if I find out that my authorisations and signature are being used to certify work which I have not carried out.


Now now Samual what are you trying to insinuate, you'll have the Quality Police (http://vulcantothesky.org/smf/Smileys/default/police.gif) after me! 

As far as I remember WE were made redundant and not sacked and as for your auths, they are not up to date.  Finally why do I need to use your stamp, when I can stamp everything myself (http://vulcantothesky.org/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)

(http://vulcantothesky.org/smf/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 08, 2017, 12:13:47 AM
As far as I recall after Pat retired you took over as the Quality police.

You told me that the auths had been kept up to date when I last spoke to you.

I am glad you have no need to use my stamp.  That being the case I wonder why you were so insistent on it's return.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 08, 2017, 07:57:14 AM
Smiler,

Redundant or sacked makes no difference in reality, they are just the same words for meaning you guys were "C" stores to be tossed around and discarded when management couldn't afford to keep you on the payroll.  Last I knew was that none of the remaining trust members have designated themselves surplus to requirements and taken volunteer roles rather than salaries. I reckon that would change the vibe on this forum completely!

There's not very many of us left either posting or lurking, but, for argument's sake, what would happen if you took your bat and ball and buggered off completely leaving the trust without anyone "qualified" to bring the jet alive?  It seems they really have put all their eggs into one "Taff" basket.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 08, 2017, 09:06:01 AM
And also for arguments sake,could the CAA even at this late stage grant an "Air Worthiness" ticket for a one off ferry flight and get 558 out of DSA before it becomes a fire practice wreck and fly it to somewhere that would give it a long term future WITHOUT the Trust being involved ??
I would pay money to assist in this outcome as would many others who have withdrawn financial support since the final flight debacle !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 08, 2017, 11:01:12 AM
I would pay money to assist in this outcome as would many others who have withdrawn financial support since the final flight debacle !

Mike

Ditto what Mike says................

I for one would put in as much time, effort and money as I could and I'm sure loads of other followers of 558 would if there was a chance of getting her out of the cesspit the Trust have dumped her in.

I am past it with listening to anything the Trust have to say, they just write anything they want in the newsletters and expect us to believe it (sadly some people do and cough up yet more cash for the bottomless pit).

The current situation is appalling with 558 and the Canberra dumped outside whilst the Trust are still taking a wage - why are they still on the payroll??
655, 426, the People's Mosquito, the Skymaster - all run by volunteers not taking a penny for themselves!! All monies go to the aircraft and not to line someone's pocket!!

Someone should be made accountable for where all the money has gone and why she's parked outside hidden away and getting soaked.

So, as Mike says, could there be any chance of getting her out of there to somewhere that the 'People' would be allowed to see and support her again??




Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Gregg on August 08, 2017, 12:19:29 PM
I would pay money to assist in this outcome as would many others who have withdrawn financial support since the final flight debacle !

Mike

Ditto what Mike says................

I for one would put in as much time, effort and money as I could and I'm sure loads of other followers of 558 would if there was a chance of getting her out of the cesspit the Trust have dumped her in.

I am past it with listening to anything the Trust have to say, they just write anything they want in the newsletters and expect us to believe it (sadly some people do and cough up yet more cash for the bottomless pit).

The current situation is appalling with 558 and the Canberra dumped outside whilst the Trust are still taking a wage - why are they still on the payroll??
655, 426, the People's Mosquito, the Skymaster - all run by volunteers not taking a penny for themselves!! All monies go to the aircraft and not to line someone's pocket!!

Someone should be made accountable for where all the money has gone and why she's parked outside hidden away and getting soaked.

So, as Mike says, could there be any chance of getting her out of there to somewhere that the 'People' would be allowed to see and support her again??

Nope.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 08, 2017, 01:13:03 PM
is that NOPE to getting her out by air or NOPE to getting her out at all? I agree that a flight is impossible but if the Trust saw a sensible plan and funds to move her by road even if it meant never ground running again surely that is worthwhile.

If the club funds have not been passed to the trust (and I hope not because I don't see them being used sensibly in the current situation) then could these be designated for a 'by road' move? Yes a destination needs to be identified, ideally with other aircraft but I don't see that as insurmountable. The only thing that might stop it is peoples' pride.

As I said somewhere on here I believe Doncaster was the right solution during the flying era but an alternative was needed one flying ceased due to the need to slot in with airport operations, running a non-airworthy aircraft on a commercial runway was never going to be feasable to any extent.

we can't turn back the clock but IF those remaining funds could be used (or put towards) roading out to a museum then I'm sure that plan would gain more support as needed to make it happen and effectively meet the HLF promise of preserving it in an existing national museum where it could be easily visitable on a regular basis rather than on it's own visited only by those with deep pockets and on occasional days only.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Gregg on August 08, 2017, 01:18:01 PM
Both.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 08, 2017, 02:05:25 PM
Both.
Very informative Gregg,thank you for your in depth appraisal of the current situation  ::)

Old Fa%t
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Gregg on August 08, 2017, 03:00:26 PM
Both.
Very informative Gregg,thank you for your in depth appraisal of the current situation  ::)

Old Fa%t

I'll expand on it when I've got more time. Some of us work, unlike you retired dwarves that spend their days getting older and rounder.  :-*
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 08, 2017, 03:08:10 PM
 :D Yes keep on working Gregg so that I can carry on receiving my pension that you (in a small way) contribute to  :))

Lumpy Dwarf

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Gregg on August 08, 2017, 03:17:00 PM
Enjoy it while you can, at your age you ain't got long left.  ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: PhillyJ on August 08, 2017, 06:16:12 PM
Enjoy it while you can, at your age you ain't got long left.  ;D
oh how I've missed the banter from the old days of the forum!  8)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: brains_mt on August 08, 2017, 08:11:39 PM
You guys!!! ::) ;) :)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 09, 2017, 08:37:14 AM
A few questions.

1.Why was the Club Committee excluded from the final flight ?
2.Who is currently employed or receiving remuneration of any sort from Trust funds ?
3.How much is the current wage bill including expenses and retainer fees etc ?
4.How cost effective are the current batch of Air Show attendances by the Trust Trailer after deducting costs ?
5.What are the current cash reserves of the Trust ?

Regards

Mike

Very valid questions Mike - I wonder if they'll get answered today? Or ever?

Waiting with baited breath............................. ::)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 09, 2017, 08:58:25 AM
You'll be waiting a long time, probably until hell freezes over. "The Ministry of Broken Promises and PR Bullsh1t" are, as ever, unlikely to be open and honest given the dire result of their over inflated ambitions.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: PA28 on August 09, 2017, 10:29:37 AM
Contrary to what some might think, I'm a mere contractor doing 50% less than the old days and still volunteering many hours a week... so I'm not in a position to answer for the Trust. 

I will pass on the thought of the thread though.

Ian
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 09, 2017, 10:50:02 AM
I will pass on the thought of the thread though.

Ian

Can you ask them for some answers to Mikes questions - pretty please??? (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/whistle.gif)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: PaulH2015 on August 09, 2017, 11:29:43 AM
It begs the question as to why the Trust retained the stamps ...

Why wouldn't they?  It only contains a number, and that number could easily be assigned to a new member - if one were ever employed, the surname is written under the stamp at all times so it should be clear who the stamp refers to.  Doesn't seem much point in scrapping the stamp then needing to have a new one made.  Remember these procedures were laid down years ago, they are not just since the end of flight.  And as I was told when I was there after the final flight they were continuing with all the processes and procedures, which themselves date from RAF days, for the same reason that men have nipples - "Just in case".
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 09, 2017, 03:09:07 PM
You guys!!! ::) ;) :)
It wasn't me that started it Miss,it was that Horrid Gregg bloke ! honest

 ;D

Injured Party
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Gregg on August 09, 2017, 04:50:52 PM
You'll be an injured party when i get you. Shouldn't ypu be dribbling soup and wetting yourself like other old farts?  ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 09, 2017, 07:27:42 PM
I don't have a problem with that and nor does my 18 year old (female) Thai carer (not a lady boy  ;D),getting back on track with the more serious stuff,nice to see that Ian has put his hands up to being on the Trust payroll but how many others ? and what does it cost those that still donate to 558 !,more transparency please before I and hundreds of others dip into our pockets again.

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 11, 2017, 01:14:52 PM
A few questions.

1.Why was the Club Committee excluded from the final flight ?
2.Who is currently employed or receiving remuneration of any sort from Trust funds ?
3.How much is the current wage bill including expenses and retainer fees etc ?
4.How cost effective are the current batch of Air Show attendances by the Trust Trailer after deducting costs ?
5.What are the current cash reserves of the Trust ?

Regards

Mike

Very valid questions Mike - I wonder if they'll get answered today? Or ever?

Waiting with baited breath............................. ::)

Is there anybody out there?? We is waiting!! (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/wavey.gif)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: CLIFFORD on August 11, 2017, 03:29:50 PM
regarding questing 4.
my thought is as long as the stand makes a profit (the more the better) it is there as the ONLY contact people have, there is still a lot of interest in 558 we can keep them informed as much as we know.  also much to our surprise there is a very big following for the Canberra  with people buying all sorts of merchandise. at RIAT we only had small and xx3 tee shirts left on Sunday afternoon.
without the trust stand there would be no contact for people to talk to.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 13, 2017, 06:18:27 PM
Hi Clifford,

Plenty of contact on the forum except that the Trust refuse to use it to answer their critics !,I note your comments regarding the Trust Trailer at various shows and applaud you for volunteering to help out when required,the problem is that being run by the Trust invariably means that you as a volunteer will only hear the Trust's one sided take on the situation and selling a few T shirts is not going to make a whole lot of difference to the Trust finances after you have taken into consideration the cost of the event (site) fees,fuel,merchandise food and accommodation for the event !.
I wish with all my heart that I could believe that you and other volunteers where making a difference and helping to preserve 558 for the future but I strongly suspect that all you are doing is keeping a few people in a job and 558 will slowly become sidelined and fall into disrepair or worse !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: PA28 on August 14, 2017, 12:05:02 PM
I'm not sure what you expect me to post here?

I'm a contractor with no knowledge of many of the things that seem to be an issue.

I'll kindly suggest you need to speak to one of the Trustees or wait on any official statements that might come along.
As it is, I'm rather tired of all the implications that I am somehow involved as a 'member of the Trust' in all that it does or the direction and position it is in.

Nor do I like the thought that some might think I'm 'profiteering' of publicly donated money. I've actually helped turn donations into vast profits, but that's another story. 

I do not manage the Trust, so it's just best for me to keep a low profile and do what I'm contracted to do...... if any have a problem with what I have 'cost' - then think again.

For clarity, I'll not be visiting this forum in future.

Many thanks.
Ian




 
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on August 14, 2017, 01:25:41 PM
mike;
Not being a banner-waver for UKAR but you could try asking your questions there, given that one of the Trustees ( Steve Liddle ) posts on there.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 14, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
I'm not sure what you expect me to post here?

I'm a contractor with no knowledge of many of the things that seem to be an issue.

I'll kindly suggest you need to speak to one of the Trustees or wait on any official statements that might come along.
As it is, I'm rather tired of all the implications that I am somehow involved as a 'member of the Trust' in all that it does or the direction and position it is in.

Nor do I like the thought that some might think I'm 'profiteering' of publicly donated money. I've actually helped turn donations into vast profits, but that's another story. 

I do not manage the Trust, so it's just best for me to keep a low profile and do what I'm contracted to do...... if any have a problem with what I have 'cost' - then think again.

For clarity, I'll not be visiting this forum in future.

Many thanks.
Ian

That's an interesting comment Ian.  I am sure that under your username it says "administrator" how will that work?  We will now have a forum where the administrator does not visit....

You have spent a long time blowing your own trumpet, letting everyone know what a great job you have done.  Only natural then that they will assume that you are closely connected to the trust and all of its mechanisms and decisions.

Being a contractor for the trust is a pretty thankless task - but at least they talked to you (and still retain your services) not saying I did not have a great time as I did but it would have been nice if the management (not including you as you are just a fellow scummy contractor) or the trustees, on one of their rare visits  to the hangar floor, had made some sort of effort to say hello - or even explain what was going on...

The problem is that people have given a lot of money - some people gave a lot more than they could afford and now they can not even see the aircraft they supposedly have a "share" in.  To add further insult to injury they are now being asked to donate more money for  a scheme that many feel will desecrate the aircraft for no purpose other than keeping a few people in a job.  There is no evidence that those people still employed are making any progress in preserving 558 for future generations or inspiring future generations of aviation people - I would say they are doing more to inspire future generations of administrators, bookkeepers and party planners, as that way you are sure to keep your job when the plan goes pear shape...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: eddief on August 15, 2017, 12:51:36 AM
I just got back from a lovely break in Majorca & a fab, two hour session flying an A320 simulator - great fun.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 15, 2017, 04:46:16 PM
Nice to have you back Eddie !,as a prominent sponsor of 558 perhaps you can shed some light on the current situation regarding the future of 558 as the Trust and lately Ian Homer have failed to do so despite plenty of opportunities to respond to posts on this thread and the "How Would You Feel"thread started by Sam.

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 16, 2017, 02:07:47 PM
For clarity, I'll not be visiting this forum in future.

Many thanks.
Ian

Thanks for your reply Ian, it speaks volumes to me - 'teddy' and 'cot' come to mind..........!

Mikes questions are reasonable, valid and what most of we 'little people' are wanting answers for.
Genuine answers that is, not Politicspeak which we have endured in the newsletters from a small bunch of people telling us it's ok when it obviously isn't!

Eddief, great to see you back on here but could you help please?

We are all concerned with the slow motion car crash that is happening to 558 (aka the 'Peoples Aircraft') and to see her dumped in the middle of a sewage farm just staggers belief.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 16, 2017, 04:15:27 PM
Yes please, Eddie, or are you bound by some confidentiality clause?

We all deserve respect, our questions are simple and we don't believe a bean that is being churned out to us through the PR machine.

As a major sponsor, you should be asking the same questions, surely?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 16, 2017, 05:36:59 PM
Oooh shiny new anniversary fleeces on sale from the Trust today ! FLEECE"D" being the operative word  >:(

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 16, 2017, 06:06:57 PM
Oooh shiny new anniversary fleeces on sale from the Trust today ! FLEECE being the operative word  >:(

Mike

90 quid?? Is that for all of 'em??(https://emoticons.datahamster.com/dizzy.gif) (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/crazy.gif)

Is they 'aving a larf?? (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/rotfl5.gif)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Pujgnie on August 16, 2017, 06:37:40 PM
Oooh shiny new anniversary fleeces on sale from the Trust today ! FLEECE"D" being the operative word  >:(

Mike

They must think that they will sell like hot cakes being serial numbered. What is the point of selling new attire for an aircraft that is non flying and dumped outside next to a sewage plant.  >:(

How much did this new batch of clothing cost, and where did the money come from ?. Can't believe how much 'old' stock is still available in the web shop
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on August 16, 2017, 06:55:47 PM
It does say a 3rd party company is funding them under licence and giving a donation for each one sold....

but you do get a free mini rugby ball so must be a bargain!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 16, 2017, 07:04:16 PM
but you do get a free mini rugby ball so must be a bargain!

Well that swings it for me lol,I will order a dozen  ;D

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on August 16, 2017, 08:17:34 PM
No mention of how much of the £90 will go to VTST that I can see.
If you look on the bottom of the page on the VTTS Store page, you'll see that they're being done by 'EB Umbrella'.
On the RAFBF website :
Quote
EB Umbrella is proud to present these fantastic limited edition garments individually designed in support of the RAF Benevolent Fund.
(snip)
Each fleece in the range costs £80 and comes in five different sizes, and EB Umbrella will donate £20 to the RAF Benevolent Fund for every fleece sold. Only 50 of these limited edition garments will be sold per design.

So in the case of the one done for VTST, do we assume that the donation will also be £20 ( despite it costing £10 more....or is that because the VTST one includes a 'free' ball  ;) ) ?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 16, 2017, 09:04:10 PM
If it's that exclusive I'm surprised there's a need to include a free rugby ball. £90 is extremely steep even for a 'limited edition' but I wonder where they expect to find 558 punters anyway.

so is the merchandise now being priced to be aimed at the rich minority, justthe same as the tours?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 16, 2017, 09:08:56 PM
I hope that they are taking Pre-Orders because if they have already made 558 of them I suspect that they will be left with over 500 unsold !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 16, 2017, 09:23:18 PM
better hurry, there's sure to be a bit of a scrum for the free gift ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 16, 2017, 09:30:07 PM
better hurry, there's sure to be a bit of a scrum for the free gift ;D

PMSL

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 19, 2017, 09:46:48 PM
So  nice to see the marketing masterminds have been hard at work.

I did a little bit of (admittedly theoretical) maths.

If EB umbrella are donating £20 to the Benevolent Fund for every fleece sold that is probably 50% of the profit (very generous of them too)

Assuming the trust has got the same deal from EB umbrella.  The profit margin on each fleece will be about £45.

50% of the profit will earn them £22.50 or £12,555.00 once they have sold all 558.

That should keep the webstore manager, his assistant, the admin manager, her assistant, the remote stock sales manager, his assistant, the admin manager at Doncaster, his assistant and the Engineering director plus the crop of consultants and contractors that are still klinging on in tea and biscuits for a few weeks.

It's starting to get cool now so I would think that they can all huddle around the heating system they had installed into the warehouse at Doncaster (to keep the pallets of unsold books warm) and discuss their next marketing masterplan.

The heating system is automatic and set to 20 degrees.  We used to go in and switch it off as the warehouse was like a sauna and the thing was making a greater contribution to global warming than 558 on an engine run.  Wonder who is keeping an eye on it now?

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 24, 2017, 09:50:30 AM
Just had a look at the names under the wing thingy and the amount available has jumped up by 500 from yesterday!!!!!!
Must have realised they could sell out before 1st Oct so upped the amount up for grabs!!

As Sam says:


That should keep the webstore manager, his assistant, the admin manager, her assistant, the remote stock sales manager, his assistant, the admin manager at Doncaster, his assistant and the Engineering director plus the crop of consultants and contractors that are still klinging on in tea and biscuits for a few weeks.

I think it could be months now Sam......................... >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on August 24, 2017, 10:00:07 AM
Cash cow springs to mind!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 24, 2017, 11:15:41 AM
Feedback from some one who has seen the first batch of names is not to good.

The names are so small they are unreadable, the sticker has been poorly applied so there are loads of bubbles and creases.

So you can't read your name - but you (and everyone else) knows the graffiti has been applied.

They might as well let the youth from Doncaster get stuck in with the spray cans and start "tagging" her now.... >:(

I have heard the "facilities manager" is now back from maternity leave so that is another mouth to feed.

I have heard that I am just a disgruntled ex-employee.  It's actually worse than that.  I am a long term supporter - I still have a standing which is paid every month so this is my money they are wasting!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: PA28 on August 24, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
I thought I would just pop back-in to see what I've been missing..... and I would like to correct more miss-information. 

Just clarification on the names panel. It is a test piece, only ever done to take an image and to gauge font and cap height. The fact that they are subtle, is so as not to detract from the visual appeal of the camouflage. Having your name on the Wing is the key element. They are actually on a low-tack type material, for easy removal of the test piece without damaging the paintwork.

When the production ones are collated, printed (on high-grade vinyl) and fitted, then these will be to the same standards as the bomb-bay names.

There, now does that not send out a different story to the one Sam has populated?

(...and I promised myself I would not bite.... but here I am again, if only here originally to pick-up a notified PM ....)
If anyone wishes to contact me, then do write to ian.homer@vulcantothesky.org

I will now stick with my promise to leave this forum.

ATB.

Ian.



....and yes, first and foremost, I'm an aviation fan and supporter of XH558 too; then contractor of Marketing support next, because that is what I do... 

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 24, 2017, 01:07:56 PM
If anyone wishes to contact me, then do write to ian.homer@vulcantothesky.org

Mike - send your questions here! Might get an answer instead of being swept under the carpet........
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on August 24, 2017, 01:41:51 PM
As I've posted previously, Steve Liddle is a member of the UKAR forum.
If any of you look on there, you'll see that I've taken the liberty of posting Mike's questions on there.
Maybe they'll get answered, maybe not.......as some of them are similar to what others have asked on there in the past, and as they received no answers, I won't be holding my breath.

Hopefully some of them will be answered in one form or another when the HLF publish the details of the accounts in a week or so's time.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 24, 2017, 03:41:40 PM
Anyone know what "ATB" means ?,little point in asking Ian directly,he has made his position very clear ! he is just a contractor and follows orders  ::)

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on August 24, 2017, 03:45:39 PM
Presumably All The Best.
Unless he's been visiting the ARRSE forum, in which case he's calling you an A******* T******* B****** !!  ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 24, 2017, 07:27:53 PM
Ooooooh surely not  ;D

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on August 24, 2017, 07:33:30 PM
Well, my posting of your questions on UKAR have so far failed to elicit any proper replies ( except for an "I was invited but didn't go" comment )......they appear, however, to have potentially caused a bout of handbaging to kick off  >:D  ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 24, 2017, 07:59:55 PM
I will take that as a "Result" then,thank you for posting on UkARSE on my behalf  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on August 24, 2017, 09:18:59 PM
Well, you had a partial answer to one of your questions in Sam's post #143 on the previous page.
In the podcast Dr.P. did with DanO' on UKAR, it was said that VTST employed 22 people.
Those 22 consisted of : 4 Directors; 5 engineering staff; 5 people running Hangar 3 ; 3 merchandising staff; 3 'customer facing' staff ( which makes 20, so Dr.P. missed 2 out )
Of those, 14 were made redundant, which leaves 8 staff.
Of the 5 engineering staff ( which doesn't include Edmondson ) 2 were kept on, both of whom ( Taff & Rick Lee(?) ) were said to be on 'zero-hour' retainer contracts.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 24, 2017, 11:44:30 PM
Well, you had a partial answer to one of your questions in Sam's post #143 on the previous page.
In the podcast Dr.P. did with DanO' on UKAR, it was said that VTST employed 22 people.
Those 22 consisted of : 4 Directors; 5 engineering staff; 5 people running Hangar 3 ; 3 merchandising staff; 3 'customer facing' staff ( which makes 20, so Dr.P. missed 2 out )
Of those, 14 were made redundant, which leaves 8 staff.
Of the 5 engineering staff ( which doesn't include Edmondson ) 2 were kept on, both of whom ( Taff & Rick Lee(?) ) were said to be on 'zero-hour' retainer contracts.

Taff and Rick Lee have both now left for pastures new.  Taff goes in for the ground runs once a month.  Which leaves Andrew as the sole "Engineer" employed by this organisation which is going to "Inspire the next generation of engineers"

One of the 14 made redundant was re-instated as the web store could not operate with only one person.

I knew it was a mistake not putting the word "manager" into my job title.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on August 25, 2017, 12:12:24 AM
Now what's that old saying about chiefs & Indians........ :-\
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on August 26, 2017, 09:32:16 AM
Interesting to see that all my comments on the XH558 page on Farcebook have been deleted!! >:(

Along with every other negative comment - seems to have hit a nerve?  >:D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on August 26, 2017, 11:35:47 AM
There won't be many comments left then from what I reading a while ago.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: methley on September 05, 2017, 11:17:20 AM
For info, this image posted on Facebook showing both aircraft's current locations...

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21414729_10156165541885730_1075953680154524340_o.jpg?oh=4b966361b0e433faa6d4d6cfdc25ff7f&oe=5A5154E6)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: CLIFFORD on September 05, 2017, 01:47:58 PM
I think the area between the Canberra and Vulcan is where the NEW hanger is to be built one day.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on September 05, 2017, 01:54:09 PM
If it ever gets built it will be on the old pan to the right of the Vulcan between the sewerage farm and the tanks. The three light patched on the black tarmac are from the test drilling to check the concrete below is in good condition.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: SteveL on September 05, 2017, 02:05:19 PM
As I've posted previously, Steve Liddle is a member of the UKAR forum

...and now he's here too.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on September 05, 2017, 02:08:54 PM
I bet I'm not the only one on here who's heartbroken at seeing the reality in that photo  >:(

How the HELL have the Trust let it come to this?? It's WRONG on so many counts..........

I've been shot down in flames on Farcebook by one of the current volunteers who says it's not a sewage farm - it's a 'Water Treatment Plant'! Does it REALLY matter?

Beginning to think maybe 558 IS parked in the right place because this whole debacle STINKS!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on September 05, 2017, 02:46:55 PM
Welcome Steve!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 05, 2017, 03:01:21 PM
Greetings....guess I'll have to retract my comment about there being 'nobody from the Trust/Trustees posting on here' now !!  :D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: SteveL on September 05, 2017, 07:59:04 PM
I was going to quote you, but I couldn't find it...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 05, 2017, 09:21:48 PM
'Tis in a different topic : http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7846.msg81077#msg81077 (http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7846.msg81077#msg81077)
 ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on September 06, 2017, 12:56:50 AM
Welcome Steve,

A couple of thoughts....

Looking at the latest pictures posted by Michelle Middelton (I guess the trust won't want anything more from her now for the next calendar...)  The ground equipment is stored under the wings.  Now Vulcans make great umbrellas but... 558 is now so light that the jacks fit quite comfortably under the wings - a couple of things when the bags are empty the rubber drys out shrinks (it also tends to crack) so if they ever try and refill the tanks there is going to be a few leaks.  From the nose down attitude it looks like what little fuel remains has been put in number one and two tanks.  When it snows (she is parked out side in Doncaster) which of Taffs team of volunteers is going to go up to the airfield and sweep the snow off the wings?  The weight of the snow behind the centre of gravity will very quickly exceed the weight of the fuel in the forward tanks.  There will be four very expensive skin repairs to do when 558 sits on her arse!  Maybe they have used the tie down point on the nose leg???

On the subject of the "Fire sale" in the web store.  Selling stock reduced by 90% is extracting the michael! The stuff was obviously extremely overpriced when we were buying it before - ok it supposedly kept 558 in the air and then under cover.  Selling it off now is just wiping out the profits made in the past (and undermining the efforts of the volunteers who put in hours of work at shows up and down the country)  This looks to me as if the trust know they will be gone soon and are just trying to shift as much stock as they can before the administrators move in (probably why Bob has been in such a rush to sell all the spares from Stratford as well)

The idea of the stickers has really not been thought through.  The polythene will not breath like the paint does.  Any corrosion that is under the paint now will just explode and with a few years there will be a whole new load of work to do to get 558 looking anything like as good as she did when we left.  Now she is outside all of the cavities will be filling with condensation which now she never moves will never dry out again (the condensation will pool on the bottom of the cavities - when it warms up it will evaporate and form droplets on the top surface - then it cools down and condenses, drawing in more moisture) moisture and aluminium alloy are not good bed fellows.

Really sad about how this has ended up.  We had something great which I really believed in and now it is being dismantled quicker than the Berlin wall (probably be tiny blocks of 558 for sale on e-bay soon.)  The trust are behaving as if they can't wait for the whole thing to go away.  If they wanted to drive us out they could not have done a better job if they had hired a fleet of busses.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: methley on September 06, 2017, 08:42:36 AM
Haven't seen those, but did find these.  Source https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexcarnes/

(https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4346/36523247582_34aa0aa291_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4441/36522546732_755a5d82d2_b.jpg)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on September 06, 2017, 08:49:30 AM
Well said Sam (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/clapping.gif)

Reading about the condensation is worrying though............ :'(

And thanks for the photos methley, she looks so, so sad...................
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on September 06, 2017, 10:39:19 AM
Noticed that the Trust have just upped the amount of 'names under the wing' AGAIN!!!
They've made another 300 available, must be selling well to keep them all in a job...................... >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on September 06, 2017, 11:14:13 AM
The trust as a whole should hang their heads in Shame!!!! :'(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on September 06, 2017, 11:51:05 AM
Is it just me that doesn't like the thought of plastering 558 with names on the outside?

The bomb bay was fair enough, out of sight most of the time but available when visited. Under the wings? whilst she will no longer flying it just appears to be exploitation to me.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on September 06, 2017, 02:22:35 PM
Money money money!!! Thats all shes being used for now!! >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 06, 2017, 05:49:01 PM
Revolting peasants !!


Err.....I mean....the peasants are still revolting, I see.....  ;) :))

Maybe the Trust's latest cunning plan is to cover the whole of XH558 in stickers, effectively turning it into a 'vinyl wrap' ( like they do on cars ) thereby saving them having to do any repainting or indeed any other preventative maintenance  >:D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Pujgnie on September 06, 2017, 06:39:16 PM
Can't see too many people paying £30 to have their name put in a place they will hardly ever get to see. It's a bit like paying to have your name put on a park bench in the middle of Sherwood Forest IMO.

Like everyone else here I am more than disgusted at the way things have turned out. The old girl never deserved this  >:D

I am sure Mags Doig would have a field day doing a cartoon if she is still about.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 07, 2017, 09:12:40 AM
If anyone's interested, the most recent set of accounts have been posted on the Charity Commission website : apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends48/0001101948_AC_20161031_E_C.pdf (http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends48/0001101948_AC_20161031_E_C.pdf)

Edited to add....
From the accounts :
Quote
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited is the subsidiary of the Trust responsible for engineering activities on the Trust's aircraft, and has employed the Trust's aircraft trade technicians, fitters and quality specialists.
It holds CAA approvals for maintenance and continuing airworthiness management, and has the potential for offering aircraft maintenance services to 3rd parties.

Given the redundancies, is this still correct ?

Quote
There is a charge over the aircraft in favour of the National Heritage Memorial Fund in the amount of £427,000 reducing on a straight line basis until 2085.

Quote
Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Ltd (“VTSE”) is the wholly-owned retail trading subsidiary of VTST, and is managed by Andrew Edmondson as its lead Director. VTSE covenants its taxable profits to VTST under the Gift Aid scheme
....
The Vulcan Property Management Company Ltd (“VPMC”) was incorporated on 21 December 2015, and was set up to manage the tenant-occupied hangar space, offices and conference rooms available as the result of the Trust taking over the lease of Hangar 3 at DSA at the beginning of January 2016 from Directions Finningley CIC.
The Trust held the head lease for the 2016 calendar year, and sublet the space not required by the Trust to VPMC, which then licences space to a number of tenants.
Andrew Edmondson is the lead Director for VPMC.
VPMC now provides services to the current Lessee of Hangar 3.
.....
The Vulcan Operating Company Ltd (“VOC”) has been in existence as a dormant company since 1999, but was changed to an active company in first quarter of 2016.
The VOC is the engineering arm of the Trust, and holds the approvals from the Civil Aviation Authority for servicing and airworthiness management for non-EASA aircraft.
Its goal is to generate profits from the sale of its services to other organisations in the business of restoring, conserving or operating heritage aircraft.
Its lead Director is Andrew Edmondson
Quote
The charity’s deficit for the year was £214,510 (2015: surplus £121,193).
Quote
Wages and salaries : £772,282
Quote
( under 'Purchases' ) Canberra : £51,826
Quote
Purchase invoices for business services have been received from Greenways Business Services amounting to £36,774 (2015: £17,402).
This is a partnership where Michael Trotter, director of Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Limited, is a partner
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on September 07, 2017, 12:31:50 PM
Thanks for this Clive, Makes you wonder eh!!? I really dont know how they get away with it!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 07, 2017, 12:42:32 PM
Some bits I missed out on here, but posted on UKAR :
Quote
    This resulted in the Trust making 14 of its staff redundant in February 2017, at a cost of over £110,000.


    The Trust had 19 full-time employees and 5 part-time employees (including 9 aircrew) as at 31 October 2016, plus a number of contractors and consultants.

9 aircrew, with no clarification as to how many of those were still full-time ( but given that only 5 employees were part-timers, that would mean that a minimum of 4 of the aircrew were full-timers )
You have to wonder why they felt the need to retain 9 aircrew for 2016, given that XH558 ceased flying in 2015 !!

And to save anyone looking, Dr Plemming is still shown as the only person who was paid over £60k during that period ( with a rather vague '£70k to £80k' being listed )
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on September 07, 2017, 02:14:21 PM
I'm not sure how they get 9 (did they take on an extra one in the last year for some reason?) and the only full time one that I was aware also doubled as Ops Manager. I know a couple use to do talks etc even after 558 stopped flying but were never full time as far as I am aware.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 07, 2017, 02:49:10 PM
 Bill Ramsey replied to my post on UKAR, the pertinent part being :
Quote
with regard to 9 Aircrew still being employed at the end of 2016, I find that hard to fathom. I can categorically tell you that 6 of the seven crew flying the aircraft at the end were 'terminated' at the end of February 2016, leaving only the Chief Pilot/Ops Director. One or 2 ex-Aircrew may have been retained but no idea how that number gets to nine.

As I replied on there, it makes you wonder how the accounts they provided to the Charity Commission ( which were signed-off as being correct by the Trustees & accountants ) say differently.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on September 07, 2017, 05:51:34 PM
The return makes interesting reading (or at least the bits that have been quoted do)

The answer to the question about the engineers is that theoretically they still hold the approvals for maintenance and continuing airworthiness management.  What they do not have is anyone who can carry out that work.  Taff has all the ticks in the boxes having done all of the courses but now has a full time job at Waddington.  Rick has the approvals for the airworthiness management but has a full time job at Syerston.  Myself and Ray hold the approvals for the airframe and engine maintenance but we have full time jobs at Waddington and wherever-I-canfindit.  Maybe if the trust asks nicely we will all come running back - but in at least two cases that will result in a divorce court appearance as families have reached the end of their tether.

I suppose the deficit of £214,000 answers the question about what happened to the £200k raised in the spring (though I see that there was a later statement for £100k to cover the redundancies (shame I didn't get a share of that)

Purchases Canberra for £52,000?  I thought it cost £10k (originally it was going to be a freebie as part of the deal to buy the Coventry fleet) It was then going to cost £30k to get GJD to move it to Doncaster.  So either some one can't add up, the goal post were moved or there has been some creative accounting going on.

There is other stuff in there I could comment on but I think I'll just keep it to myself...

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Vulcanatic on September 08, 2017, 12:23:27 PM
If anyone's interested, the most recent set of accounts have been posted on the Charity Commission website : apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends48/0001101948_AC_20161031_E_C.pdf (http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends48/0001101948_AC_20161031_E_C.pdf)

Edited to add....
From the accounts :
Quote
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited is the subsidiary of the Trust responsible for engineering activities on the Trust's aircraft, and has employed the Trust's aircraft trade technicians, fitters and quality specialists.
It holds CAA approvals for maintenance and continuing airworthiness management, and has the potential for offering aircraft maintenance services to 3rd parties.

Given the redundancies, is this still correct ?

Quote
There is a charge over the aircraft in favour of the National Heritage Memorial Fund in the amount of £427,000 reducing on a straight line basis until 2085.

Quote
Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Ltd (“VTSE”) is the wholly-owned retail trading subsidiary of VTST, and is managed by Andrew Edmondson as its lead Director. VTSE covenants its taxable profits to VTST under the Gift Aid scheme
....
The Vulcan Property Management Company Ltd (“VPMC”) was incorporated on 21 December 2015, and was set up to manage the tenant-occupied hangar space, offices and conference rooms available as the result of the Trust taking over the lease of Hangar 3 at DSA at the beginning of January 2016 from Directions Finningley CIC.
The Trust held the head lease for the 2016 calendar year, and sublet the space not required by the Trust to VPMC, which then licences space to a number of tenants.
Andrew Edmondson is the lead Director for VPMC.
VPMC now provides services to the current Lessee of Hangar 3.
.....
The Vulcan Operating Company Ltd (“VOC”) has been in existence as a dormant company since 1999, but was changed to an active company in first quarter of 2016.
The VOC is the engineering arm of the Trust, and holds the approvals from the Civil Aviation Authority for servicing and airworthiness management for non-EASA aircraft.
Its goal is to generate profits from the sale of its services to other organisations in the business of restoring, conserving or operating heritage aircraft.
Its lead Director is Andrew Edmondson
Quote
The charity’s deficit for the year was £214,510 (2015: surplus £121,193).
Quote
Wages and salaries : £772,282
Quote
( under 'Purchases' ) Canberra : £51,826
Quote
Purchase invoices for business services have been received from Greenways Business Services amounting to £36,774 (2015: £17,402).
This is a partnership where Michael Trotter, director of Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Limited, is a partner

If fraudulent statements are being made then this could, of course, ultimately become a Police matter.

There could be a formal complaint to the Charities Commission, effectively it appears as though the core assets of the Trust are being looted and currently the sole purpose of the Trust's activities is to pay the salary of Trustee(s).

Such a complaint should undoubtedly emanate from former volunteers and others closely associated with XH558 to be plausible. I should think this is the way to go.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/complaints-about-charities/complaints-about-charities (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/complaints-about-charities/complaints-about-charities)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: SteveL on September 08, 2017, 01:06:11 PM
.....and currently the sole purpose of the Trust's activities is to pay the salary of Trustee(s).

Just be clear, the Trustees are volunteers and are not paid a salary.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Vulcanatic on September 08, 2017, 01:36:12 PM
.....and currently the sole purpose of the Trust's activities is to pay the salary of Trustee(s).

Just be clear, the Trustees are volunteers and are not paid a salary.

Fair comment, as someone who's never been directly involved with The Trust or any of the multitude of companies surrounding it I'm still confused by the many names and roles. I can see now that Pleming stood down as a Director of The Trust in 2009 but is still Company Secretary. Directorship presumably equating with being a Trustee. The principle's the same, it seems as if the Butler's selling off the family silver to pay the Butler?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 08, 2017, 02:02:25 PM
You have 'the Trust', which is merely an abbreviated way of referring to the Vulcan To The Sky Trust ( VTST )
Over them you have the Trustees, who are unpaid volunteers who have nothing whatsoever to do with the day-to day running & operation of VTST or XH558.
An explanation of what Trustees do can be found here : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/charity-trustee-whats-involved (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/charity-trustee-whats-involved)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: SteveL on September 08, 2017, 02:20:40 PM
Dr Pleming was (in recent years) the Chief Executive of VTTST (the charity) and company secretary. As such, he was an employee who reported to the Board of Trustees. However, as you may be aware as part of the downsizing and leading from the front, Robert made his own role redundant. He now provides CEO services on a consultancy basis. The Trustees are composed of a group of unremunerated volunteers who are legally responsible for the oversight and strategy of the charity. Sometimes the board meetings are carried out by conference call, so not only do the trustees do it in their own time, they have to bring their own coffee and biscuits.

VTTST has a number of wholly owned subsidiary companies (as opposed to charities) that carry out particular functions, such as engineering and property management. This is a fairly common model and (believe it or not) simplifies things and makes them more efficient. The directors of those companies are selected from appropriate members of the executive.

Clear as mud!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on September 08, 2017, 04:47:33 PM
So,to cut to the chase Steve what is your take on the current situation regarding the long term future of 558? will the much vaunted hanger ever be built?,how long will 558 be sat outside slowly rotting away and what is the current wages bill of those still employed by the Trust and in what capacity are they employed ?

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Zero One on September 11, 2017, 08:20:44 PM
Now the engines have been run there is no inhibiting oil in the fuel system.  The inhibiting oil prevents the seals in the fuel system from rotting

That does sound a bit of a worry but how do all the other preserved aircraft at places like Bruntingthorpe and Elvington get on. Do they do regular anti-det runs on them. If they do then they dont give much publicty to them and would have thought they could attract a few extra visitors if the public were told they were happening.

Andy
Regards anti-det runs at Bruntingthorpe we try to run engines and systems every 16 days unfortunately we can't advertise them as visitors would not be insured only us volunteers are covered.

Quote

 I do worry that 558 is going to continually lurch from one problem (dont like to use the word crisis) and sooner or later the support will dry up. Shame there arent any remaining club funs that can be used to protect her but l assume even if they havent been finally handed over yet they will only go on wages when they finally do reach the trust. I do wonder why they need to retain several full time staff members now, other groups dont  operate on that model and are successful in thier aspirations.

Ive said it before and l will say it again, lf only the vote hadnt been for integration but association we would be in a much stronger position to give the right kind of selective help.

Totally agree with this sentiment I always said and i didn't vote for integration biggest mistake we ever made
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: eddief on September 11, 2017, 09:43:46 PM
My company has invested significantly more money in 558 than any other entity.  We love her & want to see the whole story played out to a happy ending.  But I appreciate the journey to that place is beyond the imagination & trust of some - just like the return to flight was I suppose..?  And things happened along the way that did not go to plan - but that's also rather 'normal' in the real world.  Get used to it - life is not a rehearsal: Think fast & do the right thing.

I do not like reading these threads but I rather need to - so I can see what flack might be in waiting & also keep cross-checking my own sense of reality.

I think there is a good chance that the hangar will happen & things will turn for the better (which is why we are still supporting the project) but I honestly can't say that is a certainty. 

But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Gregg on September 11, 2017, 10:31:38 PM
My company has invested significantly more money in 558 than any other entity.  We love her & want to see the whole story played out to a happy ending.  But I appreciate the journey to that place is beyond the imagination & trust of some - just like the return to flight was I suppose..?  And things happened along the way that did not go to plan - but that's also rather 'normal' in the real world.  Get used to it - life is not a rehearsal: Think fast & do the right thing.

I do not like reading these threads but I rather need to - so I can see what flack might be in waiting & also keep cross-checking my own sense of reality.

I think there is a good chance that the hangar will happen & things will turn for the better (which is why we are still supporting the project) but I honestly can't say that is a certainty. 

But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.

You're a bit short..

It's all I've got.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: eddief on September 11, 2017, 11:28:15 PM
Um.. hang on..  Got it!

Well, you're a bit tall then..!  :D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: eddief on September 11, 2017, 11:29:32 PM
Oooh!  And you have a slight Midlands accent.  Have at you sir!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Gregg on September 11, 2017, 11:40:27 PM
Soft southern midget.  ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: eddief on September 12, 2017, 12:09:14 AM
Sez you...  Just jealous I reckon!  ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on September 12, 2017, 11:13:22 AM
My company has invested significantly more money in 558 than any other entity.  We love her & want to see the whole story played out to a happy ending.  But I appreciate the journey to that place is beyond the imagination & trust of some - just like the return to flight was I suppose..?  And things happened along the way that did not go to plan - but that's also rather 'normal' in the real world.  Get used to it - life is not a rehearsal: Think fast & do the right thing.

I do not like reading these threads but I rather need to - so I can see what flack might be in waiting & also keep cross-checking my own sense of reality.

I think there is a good chance that the hangar will happen & things will turn for the better (which is why we are still supporting the project) but I honestly can't say that is a certainty. 

But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.
Hi Eddie,we have never met but I along with hundreds if not thousands of Club members and supporters are so grateful to you and your company for the financial support that enabled 558's return to flight and the continuing support during her flying life and now in retirement.You are not in any way responsible for the current situation so no personal attacks will ever come your way! all that those that care about 558 want is some honesty from the Trust and more importantly Transparency,nothing flows from the Trust other than what is published on the Home page of this website,none of the questions posed on this forum by many concerned people are ever answered leading to frustration and mud slinging !.A polite reminder to the Trust,558 is supposed to be "The Peoples Vulcan" and is a charitable institution so please answer our valid questions as posted at the beginning of this thread and on others and then maybe the mud slinging will stop.

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: CLIFFORD on September 12, 2017, 01:21:38 PM
I agree with Eddie all the way, but would like more information from the trust.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on September 12, 2017, 02:46:13 PM
I thought the next lot of names would go onto a plaque on a wall. (I think I read that in a distant newsletter, or did I dream it).  Or has that changed due to them no longer having a hangar to put the aircraft in.  Will anyone go and see XH558 in her new hangar?
Names on Bomb Bay Doors are OK, the 'grafitti' by Jacqui & Dee under the wing is OK, but not to spoil the appearance of the camouflage of the aircraft for a few pounds to have your name on the aircraft.  (Only my opinion).
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 13, 2017, 01:37:20 PM
But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.
Well, as nobody else wants to stick their head above the parapet, I will.
No toy-throwing, but some simple questions based on concerns which have been voiced both on this forum and others , if you're prepared to answer them....

You'll no doubt have seen that one of the major issues people both on this forum & others have revolves around the wage bill in the most recent accounts.

Do you have any concerns or reservations about the fact that they retained so many staff for over a year after XH558 stopped flying ?

Do you have any concerns or reservations about the fact that as a result of this the wage bill accounted for over a third of the overall annual income for that time period ?

Do you have any concerns or reservations regarding the future of various post-flight plans VTST had - as well as the education aspect - given that the core engineering staff are no longer employed and - if Sam is correct - are highly unlikely to return in the future ?

Do you have any concerns or reservations regarding the breakdown of people retained on full-time contracts....in particular, the number of managers ( 6, if the list Sam posted is accurate ) ?

Edited to add a couple more questions in view of recent posts on this forum and UKAR....

Do you have any concerns or reservations regarding the current valuation of XH558 compared to that of a similar airframe XL426 ?

Given the claims about there being great crested newts at the location of the planned new hangar, do you have any concerns or reservations about it's viability, the timeframe involved and the costs involved ?

Feel free to tell me to jog on, if you'd rather not answer.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Zero One on September 14, 2017, 07:54:58 AM
Clive
Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't these accounts   for year end 2016 prior to the removal from hangar and downsizing of staff?
Didn't I read somewhere that Robert was now on part time, Mr Trotter, believe is a consultant also on part time? 

Will have to go back and see Sam's list of staff as I missed it..... Have now found it, am amazed more than I ever thought..... OMG

I wonder how many and who they are, are still on full time contracts?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on September 14, 2017, 08:20:56 AM
Clive
Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't hese accounts   for year end 2016 prior to the removal from hangar and downsizing of staff?
Didn't I read somewhere that Robert was now on part time, Mr Trotter, believe is a consultant also on part time? 
Will have to go back and see Sam's list of staff as I missed it..... Have now found it, am amazed more than I ever thought..... OMG

They are Denis but those changes you quoted weren't until around March this year so that cash drain continued for at least 5 months after the closing date of those accounts, I picked that up in my (rather lengthy) post last evening with an approximation of the amount it cost before the cuts. From memory annual cost for hangar £82K, salaries around £800k so a bit less than half of £880k say £400k more before the downsize and BITS initiative.

EDIT: sorry Denis, I should have checked - the staff costs were £854k for the year ending Oct 2016, so that total should be £936k (plus costs for Hinckley which also went with the cuts). And in fact there was probably rent and some of those salaries and rent paid up until at least the end of April so that £400k I estimated is likely to be nearer £470k. OUCH!

To save me looking back can anyone remember the dates when Hinckley closed and Hangar 3 contract terminated pls?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 14, 2017, 08:32:45 AM
Denis,
From Sam's posts & the interview Dr Pleming did with DanO' on UKAR ( still on the podcast list there if anyone wants to listen to it )...
Dr Pleming, Michael Trotter, Ian Straw, Ian Homer, Kevin Stone & Rick Lee were/are all retained on part-time contracts ( Taff & Rick on 'zero-hour' contracts, don't know about the others )

The webstore manager, his assistant, the admin manager, her assistant, the remote stock sales manager, his assistant, the admin manager at Doncaster, his assistant, the facilities manager and the Engineering director were/are apparently all retained on full-time contracts.

Of the 14 made redundant, apparently one was reinstated ( the webstore assistant....unless they now employ 2 webstore assistants ? )

Yes, the financial part of the accounts only cover up until October 2016, but that doesn't negate the fact that the wage bill for a year after XH558 stopped flying amounted to £3/4 million and - more importantly - devoured 1/3rd of the annual income ( said income being down by some 50% or so compared to 2015 )

Unless I'm mistaken, Dr Pleming did admit ( in his interview with DanO' ) that they should have reduced the number of employees far sooner than they did.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Zero One on September 14, 2017, 09:22:33 AM
Thanx Clive and Andy
Hadn't realised how bad their situation has got, been out of it for 8 yrs, wouldn't have happened if a certain red head had still controlled the financies.
She would not have let it get as bad as this
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on September 14, 2017, 11:53:00 AM
Just seen this on the Vulcan XH558's Facebook page.

"Just received the latest guardian news letter and I see that the proposed site for the new hangar has great crested newts won't that now cause significant problems getting planning permission?"
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 14, 2017, 12:18:29 PM
Ooops !!  :))

Yep, fun and games if they've got them there.
From similar experience where I used to work, lots of delays & the additional expense of feasibility studies to get them relocated......then once they are relocated, more delays to ensure no more of them turn up.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on September 14, 2017, 12:23:16 PM
"Already has caused delays on other construction at airport they are all over the place down there."
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on September 14, 2017, 12:26:29 PM
Ooops !!  :))

Yep, fun and games if they've got them there.
From similar experience where I used to work, lots of delays & the additional expense of feasibility studies to get them relocated......then once they are relocated, more delays to ensure no more of them turn up.

that sums it up very well, for the authorised great crested newt guardians it was a licence to print money, I used to have them on sites regularly. As Clive says once you have moved them you then have to stop them coming back usually with newt proof fencing (I joke not!) around excavations etc.

The craziest thing about this is that they are everywhere in the UK so hardly endangered but Europe wide they are scarce in places (maybe the French eat them) so that they are protected under EU law - a bit like illegal immigrants so the whole of the EU is meant to protect them from harm regardless of how common they are in that particular country!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 14, 2017, 02:50:22 PM
If any of you frequent UKAR, you may note the recent discussion on there concerning the valuation of XH558 compared to XL426
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Zero One on September 14, 2017, 03:51:46 PM
Just seen this on the Vulcan XH558's Facebook page.

"Just received the latest guardian news letter and I see that the proposed site for the new hangar has great crested newts won't that now cause significant problems getting planning permission?"

That won't take long to sort...... Took the M1 junc 20 Crick, guys 7 months to sort that out
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 14, 2017, 04:14:22 PM
Yep, that's about the timeframe.
The relocation is usually pretty easy ( or did the J20 guys squidge them with a Euklid then say "sorry 'bout that'  :)) ) it's the making sure none come back which takes the time.......usually they wait until after the breeding season, which I think is around March or April.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on September 14, 2017, 04:27:50 PM
Or is this a cunning ploy by VTTS not to even start the hanger project ?  ;D,I would still be interested in having my original question regarding what funding reserves the Trust holds answered as that quite obviously will have a huge impact on the project getting off the ground or are they hoping that a rich benefactor will step up to the plate and fund the entire project ?

Mike

No Newt squiging please  :D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Zero One on September 14, 2017, 04:36:15 PM
Yep, that's about the timeframe.
The relocation is usually pretty easy ( or did the J20 guys squidge them with a Euklid then say "sorry 'bout that'  :)) ) it's the making sure none come back which takes the time.......usually they wait until after the breeding season, which I think is around March or April.

Nah they had an environmental gestapo rep on site
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 14, 2017, 04:59:58 PM
Them people are useless.
Where I used to work, they found the newts but completely missed the various species of orchid ( including marsh orchids ) growing in an area which was down to be turned into a car park.
( Most of said orchids were promply dug up & relocated to my back garden, where they continue to grow & spread  ;D )
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on September 14, 2017, 05:12:07 PM
And back to VTST's accounts....
If anyone's looked on UKAR you'll have seen my comparison between VTST & YAM -- Despite being much bigger, having many more airframes and being an active museum, YAM is primarily staffed by unpaid volunteers and they only have 5 full-time and 5 part-time employees ( and 3 contractors )
( Their accounts are here, if anyone wants to look :  http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=516766&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList (http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=516766&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList) )
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on September 15, 2017, 04:53:40 PM
Planning application has been submitted and could take up to 10 weeks for the council to make their decision.
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21752061_10214494503182686_4633343920270706035_n.jpg?oh=67f82f17844948a18b8147daae2d3c02&oe=5A478C3A)
From today's newsletter.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on September 15, 2017, 05:29:21 PM
Nothing showing on Doncaster Council's website regarding the planning application.
Maybe it hasn't been entered online yet.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on September 15, 2017, 06:35:23 PM
Perhaps there is a little happy place for the newts
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on September 16, 2017, 10:18:38 AM
I've got a pet one, it's very small.

In fact it's minute ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on September 16, 2017, 12:33:18 PM
Groan.........  :P
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: eddief on September 16, 2017, 10:48:08 PM
Just a quick note.  I'm not being evasive but more important things have popped up at home (specifically, my father-in-law to be who was rushed in with DVTs and - after a few days - has now had most of one leg amputated) so that is now my main priority.  I will come back to the various points raised & do my best to answer them once I've got on top of the domestic situation (and the huge backlog of work). 
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on September 17, 2017, 09:01:22 AM
How awful. Wishing him a speedy recovery xx
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on September 17, 2017, 09:29:38 AM
Just a quick note.  I'm not being evasive but more important things have popped up at home (specifically, my father-in-law to be who was rushed in with DVTs and - after a few days - has now had most of one leg amputated) so that is now my main priority.  I will come back to the various points raised & do my best to answer them once I've got on top of the domestic situation (and the huge backlog of work).

fully understood Eddie, hope he recovers quickly. In the grand scheme of things answers about the Vulcan are far less important and the lowest priority for you - I'm sure we can all wait for however long it takes for your domestic and work situation to stabilise -

very best wishes
Andy
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on September 17, 2017, 06:16:10 PM
Thoughts with you and your family Eddie.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on September 18, 2017, 10:41:33 PM
Thoughts with you Eddie, and your family.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: brains_mt on September 18, 2017, 11:58:14 PM
Thinking of you Eddie xxx
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: CLIFFORD on September 19, 2017, 03:10:20 PM
all the best Eddie.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: smiler on September 22, 2017, 05:19:28 PM
I see 558 gets a small mention in the Airport's latest release!

http://wearedoncaster.co.uk/news/ambitious-doncaster-sheffield-airport-reaches-for-the-sky/#.WcN3R_puPSg.linkedin

http://vulcantothesky.org/smf/Smileys/default/laugh.gif
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on September 22, 2017, 06:04:34 PM
I saw 558 out the window of our Thompson flight last week!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on September 22, 2017, 06:09:40 PM
Thanks for that Taff! I have always thought a rail link was the way forward, as for the Sparrows - why not!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 01, 2017, 03:37:54 AM
Bit of a thread resurrection again......

A claim has been made on UKAR by someone calling themselves '911T' that the Swift has now joined XH558 & the Canberra basking in the glorious fresh air.
Not seen anything posted anywhere else claiming this, so is that correct ?
If so, why the apparent sudden decision by 2Excel Aviation ?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on December 01, 2017, 09:25:56 AM
I might go and take a look assuming the snow doesn't get any worse  ;D

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: smiler on December 01, 2017, 03:41:33 PM
2 Excel are in the process of setting up their own 145 Maintenance Organisation in the Hangar, which will hopefully be operational in January and need the space.

 ;D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on December 01, 2017, 06:36:49 PM
So ,another iconic British jet finds itself dumped outside ! I wonder if the Swifts owner envisaged this when he/she spent thousands having the aircraft restored by Jet Art ??   :( Time for a new home I think,somewhere warm and open to the public !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 01, 2017, 08:37:53 PM
2 Excel are in the process of setting up their own 145 Maintenance Organisation in the Hangar, which will hopefully be operational in January and need the space.

 ;D

Thanks for the confirmation & the explanation for the move.
Presumably it's not just a temporary measure, then.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on December 01, 2017, 10:11:50 PM
So - another aircraft associated with the ‘Trust’ is assigned to sit outside in the winter   >:(

This is all so UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

And still the email newsletter bleats buy this, buy that, give us your money so we can have a good Christmas...................

After all the beautiful, happy times 558 gave us - who could have predicted she would be sat outside in winter with jacks under her ‘arse to stop her tipping up in case of heavy snow...............

Sorry but I just cannot comprehend how the Trust can justify their existence now - where the HELL is all the money going?? Not on these precious aircraft that’s for sure!!!

Absolutely and utterly DISGUSTED  >:( >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on December 01, 2017, 10:27:49 PM
well at least the initials don't have to be changed: Vulcan To The Snow.

it is a great shame and can only hope (and it is only a hope I fear) that the hangar gets approved and they find a benefactor to pay for it.

I don't know what the outgoings are now but I do hope that the majority of the money raised by the names under the wing appeal has been put aside for good use to benefit the aircraft rather than all being wasted on needless wages. I really can't understand why they need all the remaining 'employees' who effectively are just backroom and admin staff rather than directly looking after the aircraft. Most if not all similar organisations get along well by using volunteers at all levels of their management structure but there again most aren't on operational airports, maybe that illustrates why Doncaster was only right whilst she was flying.

i'm very disillusioned by the whole debacle
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on December 03, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
So - another aircraft associated with the ‘Trust’ is assigned to sit outside in the winter   >:(

This is all so UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

And still the email newsletter bleats buy this, buy that, give us your money so we can have a good Christmas...................

After all the beautiful, happy times 558 gave us - who could have predicted she would be sat outside in winter with jacks under her ‘arse to stop her tipping up in case of heavy snow...............

Sorry but I just cannot comprehend how the Trust can justify their existence now - where the HELL is all the money going?? Not on these precious aircraft that’s for sure!!!

Absolutely and utterly DISGUSTED  >:( >:( >:( >:(

WELL SAID MATE!!!! DISGUSTED THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED AND WE CANT DO A BLOODY THING ABOUT IT!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on December 03, 2017, 11:18:37 PM
I've done what I can only do and stopped funding from my fixed income.  I'm also sitting on my next Founding Guardian subscription to see how long before anyone notices.

When I informed Dr. Pleming that I was cancelling all funding, he did reply, thanked me for my previous support and asked if I would elaborate on why I cancelled.

I did.

NO RESPONSE

So to quote an old service anacronym... he's NFI
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on December 04, 2017, 09:05:52 AM
I've done what I can only do and stopped funding from my fixed income.

I stopped my monthly donation in Sept 2015, a month before she was grounded, because I didn’t agree with the Trusts retirement plans for her.

No one contacted me to ask why I cancelled the Direct Debit, to say thanks for your support or diddlysquat!!

As ascot5046 says - NFI..............

But I bet they would have been FI if it had been a substantial amount every month  >:(

Edited to add - I now sponsor a ginger tom called Rupert at my local cats home instead!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 04, 2017, 12:56:57 PM
Meh !!
I beat the pair of you - I stopped donating in 2013, albeit that mine were ad-hoc donations rather that subscriptions.
I was contacted....not by anyone from VTST, but from Sarah F. & Graham H. as I also binned my Club membership.

I've been contemplating bunging some money at XL388, but I wouldn't want to jinx the project -- the last 3 aviation projects I've donated to being Meteor WZ507 ( a couple of months before they sold it ) Shackleton WR963 ( a couple of months before they had their 'organisation problems' ) and the Sea Vixen ( a couple of months before they crashed it the last time )  :-[
So if anyone's got an aviation project they want to put the kibosh on, let us know !!  >:D

Oh, and speaking of XL388....
For those who don't frequent UKAR, the question's been raised on there -- for their ongoing restoration, have VTST given them any buckshee kit, or has anything they've had off VTST had to have been paid for ?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on December 04, 2017, 02:01:49 PM
My Guardian thing isnt going to be renewed!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on December 04, 2017, 02:16:22 PM
I don't know what the outgoings are now but I do hope that the majority of the money raised by the names under the wing appeal has been put aside for good use to benefit the aircraft rather than all being wasted on needless wages.

Isn’t one of the Trustees registered on here? I’m sure he’d be more than happy to answer this question  ;)

Also VTTS have had over £300,000 donated via the appeal earlier this year and the names on sticky back plastic plus other donations and profits from the webstore, raffle etc - maybe he could let us know where these funds are going to?



Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 04, 2017, 02:45:28 PM
Quote
Isn’t one of the Trustees registered on here?
Yep...Steve Liddle ( 'SteveL' )
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on December 04, 2017, 07:31:53 PM
And of course the age old still unanswered questions

1.Who is currently on the VTTS payrole
2.What is the current monthly salary bill.

No one seems to want to answer these questions despite the fact that it is supposed to be a charity !!

 >:(

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 05, 2017, 10:45:09 AM
As I've posted on UKAR.....Unless things have changed, as far as I can work out :

1. Full-time staff should currently consist of :
Engineering Manager, Webstore Manager, Admin Manager, Remote Stock Sales Manager, Admin Manager at Doncaster, Facilities Manager.
Webstore assistant, Admin assistant, Remote Stock Sales Assistant, Admin Assistant at Doncaster.
( So 6 Managers & 4 Assistants )

2. I shudder to think.
The salary alone ( excluding pensions, consultants' fees, etc. ) was £750k when they had 22 staff.
Only one staff member ( Dr.P. ) was getting paid more than £60k
They've got roughly half the staff, so logically the wage bill reflects this.....theoretically, I'd guess it's now somewhere around £300-350k PA ( so around £25-£30k per month )

Anyone dispute the accuracy of this ?

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on December 05, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
Begs the question as to how much is left after salaries are paid to

1.Maintain 558
2.Fund the ongoing new hanger saga !

Taff of course will be on the payroll but only as a contractor/consultant as and when required !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 06, 2017, 08:59:08 PM
It's a shame that there's still nobody who'll come on here in an official ( or even semi-official ) capacity and address these concerns.

About the only person you see attempting to defend VTST & their policies is 'Microlightdriver' on UKAR.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 07, 2017, 05:02:39 PM
Questions asked on UKAR......
What benefits ( if any ) do those who are 'Founding Guardians' get for their membership fee ?
Also, is the scheme which was introduced ( or going to be introduced ? ) for new 'Guardians' still going ?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on December 08, 2017, 07:31:39 AM
Questions asked on UKAR......
What benefits ( if any ) do those who are 'Founding Guardians' get for their membership fee ?
Also, is the scheme which was introduced ( or going to be introduced ? ) for new 'Guardians' still going ?

Clive, I've just had a look at the trusts site http://www.vulcantothesky.org/home.html and cannot find anything about guardians schemes anywhere, not even on the how to help & donate pages. It doesn't help that there's no apparent search facility.

I know the founding guardians scheme was only for ex club members and the chance to transfer over has now gone but thought there might have been something there to tell them how to re-new and maybe acknowledge their part (via the club)in getting and keeping 558 in the air. The guardians scheme was for non ex-club members and thus the current membership scheme so I would have expected that to be fairly prominent but it all just seems to be about asking for donations and standing orders or tat from the shop

This might me better in a separate topic really  as it's going away from the original subject but lets see what surfaces first for now
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: smiler on December 08, 2017, 08:05:30 AM
Interesting article

https://www-thestar-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.thestar.co.uk/business/18m-aero-apprentice-centre-plan-in-doncaster-to-help-skills-soar-1-8898572/amp (https://www-thestar-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.thestar.co.uk/business/18m-aero-apprentice-centre-plan-in-doncaster-to-help-skills-soar-1-8898572/amp)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on December 08, 2017, 08:31:53 AM
Interesting :o
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 08, 2017, 12:44:34 PM
Andy;
I couldn't find anything either, until 'Microlightdriver' pointed out that the 'Forum' button on the horizontal row ( between 'History/Articles' & 'How to help' ) is labelled incorrectly !
It actually takes you to what used to be the 'Club' page & simply states the following :
Quote
For all enquiries regarding the Founding Guardians please contact our office - details below.

Please do not try to contact the Vulcan to the Sky Club office as it is now closed.

The Vulcan Marketing Company
Office: 12 Dunns Close Nuneaton, Warwickshire. CV11 4NF. United Kingdom.

Telephone 02476 322 259
Direct Line 02476 322 264

That's all...nothing else.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Goudaboys on December 08, 2017, 01:23:31 PM
Hi.

Found out how to access 'Founding Guardians'.
On the home page click 'Shop in Store'.
Click 'Shop Here'.
'Founding Guardians' is on the right side of 'clothing size guide'.
Very small lettering!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 08, 2017, 02:04:49 PM
They hid that away well !
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on December 08, 2017, 03:59:37 PM
Just scanned the article Smiler had posted the link for.

Someone has got their head up their arse if they think that The Red Arrows could co-exist on a commercial airfield.  They fly upwards of 5 sorties per day during the season work up and even if the display practices were held over another airfield, the circuit  access requirements for the Reds is incompatible with the scheduled commercial operation.

If anyone doubts that, just recall how impossible it has been to get 558 to have taxi runs, as promised to everyone when the decision to drop her on her last legs a few years ago. Not wishing to open any wounds here, but was the memory of a preventable double engine destruction on the active runway a contributory factor on this one?

Smoke and mirrors, or what we used to call in the IT sales sector, Vapourware
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on December 08, 2017, 05:37:18 PM
Hi.

Found out how to access 'Founding Guardians'.
On the home page click 'Shop in Store'.
Click 'Shop Here'.
'Founding Guardians' is on the right side of 'clothing size guide'.
Very small lettering!

well I tried but couldn't find it but thanks for trying (I've actually tried 3 times!). I got as far as clothing eventually but it's not much more that a crappy copy of amazon nowadays. I did consider buying a beanie hat to put on 558's cockpit during the cold winter months but I doubt they could even deliver it now even if they had the right size although I couldn't find the size guide anyway.

thanks for taking the time to tell me though.

Also thanks to Clive for the other link, another that I would never have found (for more obvious reasons). Why on earth isn't there a search function or have I missed that as well. It's all a bit of a shambles and you have to wonder how they can sell anything with this fiasco?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on December 08, 2017, 06:18:12 PM
Andy it's on the yellow bar under the page title. Tho' from what I can see it's for Guardians only, I can't find any info about becoming a Guardian (and why it's under the shopping section I have no idea).

Other than wanting direct control of the finances I can't think why they wanted to challenge the success of the Club. It had bailed them out many times.

Does anyone know on average what the contribution from the Club was per annum?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on December 08, 2017, 07:18:08 PM
I seem to remember a conversation with a committee member and the figure of £5k per month was mentioned,money well spent   ::) especially after the Trust blanking the Club Committee with regards to the final flight (never got an answer to that one did we Steve !)

The whole thing stinkss worse than the sewage farm that 558 is now parked next to (and don't get me started on the wasted funds used to buy the Canberra bits)

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on December 09, 2017, 02:04:40 PM
Like Dee, I'm going to give my renewal for Founding Guardian a miss. 

I've already sent back the raffle tickets with a message "Due to being on a fixed income, I have donated the money to The Dogs Trust"

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: scampton61 on December 13, 2017, 12:40:35 PM
especially after the Trust blanking the Club Committee with regards to the final flight

Getting really tired of you perpetuating that lie Mike, and surprised no-one from committee has seen fit to correct it (which itself speaks volumes). For the record, EVERY member of committee was told by the Trust, in advance, of final flight date. At least one member was in hangar 3 before and after flight, as I've seen their photos. Far from blanked, committee were in an extremely select group to be aware of flight date, even some aircrew didn't know!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on December 13, 2017, 02:50:46 PM
especially after the Trust blanking the Club Committee with regards to the final flight

Getting really tired of you perpetuating that lie Mike, and surprised no-one from committee has seen fit to correct it (which itself speaks volumes). For the record, EVERY member of committee was told by the Trust, in advance, of final flight date. At least one member was in hangar 3 before and after flight, as I've seen their photos. Far from blanked, committee were in an extremely select group to be aware of flight date, even some aircrew didn't know!
Only repeating what some members of the committee have told me,as you say no one has seen fit to correct  my and others comments !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on December 13, 2017, 10:26:04 PM
especially after the Trust blanking the Club Committee with regards to the final flight

Getting really tired of you perpetuating that lie Mike, and surprised no-one from committee has seen fit to correct it (which itself speaks volumes). For the record, EVERY member of committee was told by the Trust, in advance, of final flight date. At least one member was in hangar 3 before and after flight, as I've seen their photos. Far from blanked, committee were in an extremely select group to be aware of flight date, even some aircrew didn't know!
Only repeating what some members of the committee have told me,as you say no one has seen fit to correct  my and others comments !

Mike

The committee may well have been aware of the date of the flight but they were certainly not welcome.

After we had put 558 away I got a phone call from Jane Thomas.  She had come to the hangar to say goodbye to 558 - The trust management would not even let her into the hangar and she was upstairs looking at 558 from the corridor overlooking the hangar floor....
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on December 15, 2017, 04:57:40 PM
From today's newsletter, for those who don't get it....

Quote
We have been led to expect the determination on our New Heritage Hangar planning application before the end of the year, so just as soon as we have news on the decision, we will advise you in the first available newsletter and across our social media channels of Facebook and Twitter. 
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on December 15, 2017, 10:27:12 PM
So they will let us know result of the application.

How long before the begging bowl comes out as I understand they have no interest whatsoever from any backers.

Reading between the lines of the link that Taff posted I think that the local authorities and education establishments like the idea of the "ETNA" project - but I think they just don't want the trust involved.

Reading the founding guardians magazine the impression I get is that is there is no plan to carry out the restoration of 163.  The new hangar has space for parties, events, meetings and a shop - but no space for workshops or any engineering.  The articles talk about volunteers carrying out the work - well good luck to them and well done but I wonder where this new group of engineering type volunteers is going to come from.

The only hope I see for 558 finding a roof over her head is for a single benefactor paying for it.  The airport will be happy for the hangar to be built but if the trust are not careful they will end up out on their ear again as soon as someone with money offers to take the space on.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on December 16, 2017, 07:14:06 PM
For those of you who can’t get to Finningley here’s a few pics from my visit today - words fail me  :(
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s45/jakspeed/C75BE2F5-BDDC-4F7B-B32A-E68F79F6DFC9_zpsrl4qayl2.jpeg) (http://s149.photobucket.com/user/jakspeed/media/C75BE2F5-BDDC-4F7B-B32A-E68F79F6DFC9_zpsrl4qayl2.jpeg.html)


(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s45/jakspeed/31726B2B-B1B6-4370-907C-A5A522C04C3E_zpslcio7cpl.jpeg) (http://s149.photobucket.com/user/jakspeed/media/31726B2B-B1B6-4370-907C-A5A522C04C3E_zpslcio7cpl.jpeg.html)

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s45/jakspeed/6A5704DB-4DC2-47DD-938A-F900CAC524EA_zpshi5j1wgo.jpeg) (http://s149.photobucket.com/user/jakspeed/media/6A5704DB-4DC2-47DD-938A-F900CAC524EA_zpshi5j1wgo.jpeg.html)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on December 17, 2017, 08:57:12 AM
Shocking to see wasnt it Jax!!! The Swift parked outside with no cover whatsoever!! The Canberra dumped amongst scrap cars etc!
And as for 558 well just look at the pics we took!!! Disgusted dosent come close to how i feel!!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on December 17, 2017, 08:48:42 PM
Shocking to see wasnt it Jax!!!

Yes, it was shocking........................ :-[

I’ve seen the pics of her outside but that didn’t prepare me for seeing her from Old Bawtry Road, looked like she was taxiing to the threshold waiting to take off.............

Heartbreaking doesn’t even scratch the surface  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(



Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on December 17, 2017, 08:53:02 PM
and that poor old restored starter van out on the weather too  :'(
Title: Aircrew Interview Tv
Post by: Tutorboy on February 11, 2018, 04:35:32 PM
In case anyone is interested I did an interview for these guys at Newark (on a freezing day) which goes live on YouTube at 1900 hours tonight.

Cheers

Bill
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on February 14, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
Interesting that this thread has now been re-named from "so that's it then?" "Aircrew interview".

Well done Bill for keeping the memory alive but I think that there is something slightly dodgy going on here.

The trust would love to see anything negative disappear and renaming a thread with 19 pages of negative feedback would seem to be a good place to start...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on February 14, 2018, 12:53:35 PM
It's still showing as 'so that's it then' in the index Sam. It looks to me like Bill's thread has been merged with this one for some reason.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on February 16, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
It changed back to the original title after I had posted...

So sad the way this has ended.  The "celebration" at Bruntingthorpe looks like nothing more than an elaborate piss take and another way to raise money for the wage bill.  I see there is now yet another "limited" opportunity to get your name on the wing, I guess these will carry on until 558 is completely covered with sticky back plastic  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Pujgnie on February 16, 2018, 01:07:50 PM

I see there is now yet another "limited" opportunity to get your name on the wing, I guess these will carry on until 558 is completely covered with sticky back plastic  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Well.....  it's another way of weatherproofing her now she's been dumped outside. >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on February 16, 2018, 05:29:44 PM
Sadly they are all on the underside so potentially could block natural drainage and cause internal corrosion.... but I am sure someone has that covered. Sorry for the sad pun.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on February 18, 2018, 04:57:19 PM
It changed back to the original title after I had posted...

So sad the way this has ended.  The "celebration" at Bruntingthorpe looks like nothing more than an elaborate piss take and another way to raise money for the wage bill.  I see there is now yet another "limited" opportunity to get your name on the wing, I guess these will carry on until 558 is completely covered with sticky back plastic  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

At least the plastic will keep the rain out of the joints Sam !!

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on February 19, 2018, 11:06:00 PM
It changed back to the original title after I had posted...

So sad the way this has ended.  The "celebration" at Bruntingthorpe looks like nothing more than an elaborate piss take and another way to raise money for the wage bill.  I see there is now yet another "limited" opportunity to get your name on the wing, I guess these will carry on until 558 is completely covered with sticky back plastic  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

At least the plastic will keep the rain out of the joints Sam !!

Mike

Sadly not.  the way the stickers have been applied there is a far better chance that water will sit in the joints between the skins and the mag alloy stringer will rot even faster.

If you want to know what the result of that will be cast your mind back to the Bruntingthorpe major and the skins being peeled back to replace the stringers above the undercarriage bays.

I have also heard that there were some problems getting the first batch of stickers to stick - so the solution was to drill a few holes in the skin and attach the stickers using screws and penny washers.  If this turns out to be more than a rumor.....

Of course that will not happen now as there is no intention of using 558 as anything more than an expensive backdrop for parties and a fundraising machine to pay the executive wage bill...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on February 20, 2018, 11:00:49 AM
Whatever way I look at it, plastering 558 with stickers is just wrong, and not what any aircraft where there are ambitions of it being the centre of an exhibition should look like.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Pujgnie on February 20, 2018, 06:11:38 PM
Whatever way I look at it, plastering 558 with stickers is just wrong, and not what any aircraft where there are ambitions of it being the centre of an exhibition should look like.

I bet DT has a few choice words on the whole affair Pam  ;)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on February 20, 2018, 10:51:23 PM
Photos of the stickers.
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/names-under-the-wing-plaque.html
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on February 21, 2018, 08:19:09 AM
She is nothing now but a CASH COW!! its disgusting >:D >:D
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on February 21, 2018, 08:35:53 AM
She is nothing now but a CASH COW!! its disgusting >:D >:D

But they've got their wages to pay Dee!!! And nice warm offices to heat!!!

558 doesn't matter to them as long as she still pulls cash in  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on February 21, 2018, 09:56:41 AM
It is Squadron Leader Peter Thomas's birthday today.  He is 92.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on February 21, 2018, 01:05:36 PM
Happy birthday Squadron Leader Peter Thomas
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: planenut on February 23, 2018, 12:28:29 AM
Photos of the stickers.
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/names-under-the-wing-plaque.html

Many thanks for this link.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on February 23, 2018, 07:10:31 PM
Photos of the stickers.
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/names-under-the-wing-plaque.html

Yes, thanks for link Minty.

The pictures were taken shortly after the stickers ("Plaques"  ;D ;D) were applied so before any retrospective rectification may have been required.

I see Mr. Homer has been over on the UK Air Show forum biging up the quality of his workmanship "I can assure you the names plaques are made from high-quality 3M 'aircraft grade' vinyl, the same type used on commercial jets often flying in minus 30 celcius temperatures above 30,000 feet.

The whole idea of them falling off and being put back on by screws with washers is just ludicrous and you would have to wonder if such comments in posts are there for another purpose."


I am afraid that if Mr. Homer had applied the stickers to a commercial jet as he has to 558 he would be peeling them off and redoing the job.  In the pictures you can see there are bubbles under the stickers and the edges do not match.  Either 3M have supplied inferior grade vinyls as the aircraft is a non-flyer (I would not have thought so) or the application procedure has been inadequately carried out.  I have been working on an Air Malta Airbus this week and the vinyl which has been applied to that aircraft is of a superb quality - unlike the bodge job under the wings of 558.

And as for any other purpose in my posting - I only have one agenda which is to see 558 preserved (preferably as a flying Vulcan rather than a backdrop for a party venue)  On the other hand you have to question the motives of the trust management who only want to generate enough cash to continue paying the rent on the numerous offices, the salaries for the numerous staff (I see Mr. Straw has a new position in the trust according to his "Linkedin" profile) and I guess since the advent of the compulsory workplace pension enough for their pension contributions as well.

They are going to need every inch of 558's wings (and probably the fuselage and fin as well) to keep paying for that lot....
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Lew on February 24, 2018, 07:15:01 PM
Whats the point in applying the stickers and taking photos when no-one can actually physically get airside to view it, unless your one of the "special" gang.. (taken from UKArse):

(https://image.ibb.co/idVTrS/558.png)

After spending a few years with the team in hangar 3 when the spirit was alive it was great, now, its nothing more then a display board to line pockets which no-one (yet) can ever see.. Unless your part of an elite group that is.

The whole thing is a shambles. I feel sorry for the engineering team who put blood sweat and tears into 558 over the years and now to see it rotting outside is heartbreaking.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on February 25, 2018, 07:33:46 AM
Its an absolute shambles ..It should never have ended up like this!! I'm so disgusted i'm almost speechless!!!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on February 25, 2018, 03:08:48 PM
Surely if "they" continue to prevent the general public from seeing the aircraft in a museum, they are in breach of the stated aims of the Trust.

Back in the day, people were told to keep away from Finningley so as not to cause gridlock in and around the area.  I guess there aren't enough of us left now to mount a protest outside the airport to make this happen and force the press to investigate the shambles that is now an ongoing reality.  Pity that.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on February 25, 2018, 08:29:00 PM
Where are our taxi runs we were promised, what a waste, roll on Bruntingthorpe, they've had nowt out of me since 2015 and nowt till we get something in return.  >:( rant over.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on February 26, 2018, 08:19:29 PM
I was just pondering how much money has gone into the Trust since the last flight? In 2016 the income was £550k-ish (I did a summary of the accounts here: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7868.msg82096#new ) and as yet there are no 2017 figures available but they made £140k from the 'pin the name on the cash cow' appeal as well as what ever other income kept coming in even if that was half 2016's amount that would mean £275k +140k =£415k so since that last flight the income has totalled around £1 million!

What really upsets me is that for all that money there really is nothing to show for it, no hanger, no prospect of taxi runs, the aircraft stuck out in the weather next to a sewage treatment works (that was the official name for them when I worked for Anglian Water who own that site) providing scant shelter to a Canberra bought using funds which we the public (and club members) had donated to help keep 558 cared for, no prospect of an investor to build a hanger and only a few weeks of cash reserves left.

HOW?

I wish we could get answers but the Trust are becoming less and less forthcoming with details and only communicate when it's tempting those with money to burn to dip into their pockets.
Please Mr Edmonson & Mr Pleming, eat a bit of humble pie and do something to get her away from there before it's too late.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ADI on February 26, 2018, 10:08:17 PM
Please Mr Edmonson & Mr Pleming, eat a bit of humble pie and do something to get her away from there before it's too late.

Unfortunately I doubt they read this forum (they would rather burry there heads in the sand than know what the real feeling is) it seems there only in it for the money, we are nobodies they wont listern to us  >:(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on February 27, 2018, 08:26:34 AM

What really upsets me is that for all that money there really is nothing to show for it, no hanger, no prospect of taxi runs, the aircraft stuck out in the weather next to a sewage treatment works (that was the official name for them when I worked for Anglian Water who own that site) providing scant shelter to a Canberra bought using funds which we the public (and club members) had donated to help keep 558 cared for, no prospect of an investor to build a hanger and only a few weeks of cash reserves left.


Couldn't have put it better, Andy, my thoughts exactly.

In the heyday of her flying with all the excitement, expectations and sheer love for the old girl - who could have predicted it ending with her stuck outside next to a sewage for months with no public access and no shelter? It beggars belief!

I know Dee and I used to fret the odd times she was parked outside the hanger overnight!

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on February 27, 2018, 05:11:15 PM
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-charity
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on March 01, 2018, 12:36:33 PM
Just as well they "thought" about trestles and jacks for the jet, she'd be sat on her arse by now with all the snow about, unless the fat cats got their shovels out - er, no chance.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: sickbag_andy on March 02, 2018, 07:15:04 AM
Hope she stays level otherwise we can expect another appeal to repair the damage.
If she is 'sat on her ar*e' then the trust could quickly apply another set of slaques (sticky plaques) to the rear upper surfaces before she settles back on all threes!
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on April 01, 2018, 06:21:18 PM
So the winter service is complete and the only job that needs to be done is the replacement of the AAPP starter motor...

Despite the fact there is (or was) a serviceable AAPP in the stores the decision is made to drop the dog out of the box and change the starter motor in situ in service this would be done without dropping the dog - but obviously that was too hard for the volunteers.  If you've dropped the dog - you may a well replace it.

We have (or had - unless Bob has sold it) a proper stand for the dog but the "volunteer engineers" decided to drop the unit onto the top of a wooden step on a safety raiser and work on it there...

Nice to see the "engineers" have found the adjustable spanners in the tool box (I wonder what happened to all the real spanners) - what a great inspiration to the next generation of engineers and aviators.

And finally the paperwork which has been used - where have they found that piece of waste paper?  There are boxes of books in Delta Court - there were even books in the van, this looks like it has been photocopied from the back of a comic.

I know people will think I'm just being bitter but when you think how far this has fallen in just one year you may be able to see where I'm coming from.  I have no objection to volunteers "making do" but here there is (or shouldn't be) any excuse.  All of the tools, equipment, publications and expertise are available to the "volunteer engineering team" but they choose not to use them.

Still ready for another hard summer of ragging 558 to pay the wages and the pension plans...
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on April 01, 2018, 06:39:54 PM
558 will only be able to do ground engine runs and not fast taxi runs as they have no qualified pilots.
Pity they got rid of the professional ground crew.
I will not be able to see or hear the aircraft as I cannot afford to get there.
It is now a rich persons aircraft. (my opinion)
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on April 02, 2018, 05:23:59 PM
At the moment it's not even a rich persons a/c, just the play thing of a select few (my opinion).
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on April 02, 2018, 06:35:37 PM
At the moment it's not even a rich persons a/c, just the play thing of a select few (my opinion).
True Pam.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on April 03, 2018, 09:00:12 AM
Nice to see the "engineers" have found the adjustable spanners in the tool box

You beat me to it Sam,when I worked on civil aircraft after I left the RAF anybody caught using or possessing an adjustable spanner was sacked on the spot !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on April 04, 2018, 08:41:18 AM
I am sure there are still some about as the other two "Live" Vulcan's can be taxied (not sure who carries them out though) !

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on April 04, 2018, 03:59:07 PM
Seems the post I put up and Mike responded to has been taken down....... :( :(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: brains_mt on April 06, 2018, 09:46:13 AM
Have they? Not by me :(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on April 06, 2018, 06:27:19 PM
Well someone has and it sucks.  And I have another forum member who confirms it as he read the content before it was taken down.  It seems I have ruffled feathers by speaking stuff way too close to the mark.

My take on this: Give the peoples' aircraft BACK TO THE PEOPLE.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on April 06, 2018, 09:26:37 PM
Put it back on this thread and lets see what happens  >:(

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on April 07, 2018, 09:31:05 AM
It was there because I read it.

Most fora adopt the stance of either editing the post or moving it to a MODs area, normally it is usual for whoever removed it from public view to inform the poster as to why it has been taken down/edited.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on April 07, 2018, 05:11:37 PM
The words communication, openness and transparency seem to have been dropped from the lexicon of VTST.

There's so few of the loyal supporters left now and the prospect of a media campaign to "Give the peoples' aircraft back NOW" would seem the only way to hit back. Linking the present cold war feel about Russia right now and the last ever flying nuclear deterrent  V bomber languishing by a sewage farm might help raise awareness?

No, I must be hallucinating again  :-\
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: brains_mt on April 07, 2018, 08:02:17 PM
Can't see anything in the mods area. Sorry  :(
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on April 07, 2018, 11:25:07 PM
Well someone took it down without having the common decency to inform me of the reason.

If that person has the guts, put it back so that those that care can see and then their own judgements and comments.  OR tell me why I was so out of whack?

Ah, maybe I mentioned the TAFF word????

Taff, in the open, I expected better of you and, I suppose, do most of the remaining supporters either logging or just lurking and listening.

You were once a legend but now..... loyalties?......

How many minutes until this is taken down, comrades?

This is not personal but I fail to square what he is doing with the "volunteers" for the greater good of the Trust

But I've already heard from others that the airport will NOT allow 558 to use the runway i.e. Fast Taxy

Anyone care to correct this view?
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: dee on April 08, 2018, 09:49:19 AM
What have i missed!!!??
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on April 08, 2018, 11:48:55 AM
What have i missed!!!??

If you get email notifications when someone else has posted then you should be able to go back through them and find it - if not then I’ll send you it!

Be interesting to know who removed it though..........
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on April 08, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
Remember, though, it's not just Moderators who can remove posts....and if someone other than a Mod removes them, they won't show up as having been moderated.

And on a different note....
Post on UKAR earlier today saying :
Quote
Engine runs in about 45 mins.. A crowd gathering.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Paramania on April 08, 2018, 07:41:27 PM
So the winter service is complete and the only job that needs to be done is the replacement of the AAPP starter motor...

Despite the fact there is (or was) a serviceable AAPP in the stores the decision is made to drop the dog out of the box and change the starter motor in situ in service this would be done without dropping the dog - but obviously that was too hard for the volunteers.  If you've dropped the dog - you may a well replace it.

We have (or had - unless Bob has sold it) a proper stand for the dog but the "volunteer engineers" decided to drop the unit onto the top of a wooden step on a safety raiser and work on it there...

Nice to see the "engineers" have found the adjustable spanners in the tool box (I wonder what happened to all the real spanners) - what a great inspiration to the next generation of engineers and aviators.

And finally the paperwork which has been used - where have they found that piece of waste paper?  There are boxes of books in Delta Court - there were even books in the van, this looks like it has been photocopied from the back of a comic.

I know people will think I'm just being bitter but when you think how far this has fallen in just one year you may be able to see where I'm coming from.  I have no objection to volunteers "making do" but here there is (or shouldn't be) any excuse.  All of the tools, equipment, publications and expertise are available to the "volunteer engineering team" but they choose not to use them.

Still ready for another hard summer of ragging 558 to pay the wages and the pension plans...

Sorry but looking at the pictures, there is no way that starter motor could possibly be changed in situ.  I would also say that you only replace the suspect part, as there may be faults in other parts of a larger system.  I thought YOU Sam would appreciate that.  All electrical and electronic technicians know that.  What you are suggesting is akin to replacing a broken fan in a domestic boiler by fitting a new boiler.  Sounds like you have little to no idea about electrical fault finding - I would love to be your car mechanic!

As for adjustable spanners - I would have thought all standard RAF Shadow boards would have carried at least 2 different sizes.  That probably means that YOU have used them yourself whilst in Service.  Why don’t you stop back biting and pitch in and volunteer yourself, if you are so concerned?

I, for one, am immensely impressed with what the new team are managing to do - taking out the Rover unit cannot have been easy, even for an experienced team of professionals.  I think the volunteers, led by Taff need praise, rather than criticism from someone who should understand the intricacies of what they have to do.

Be a bit kinder, Sam - they seem to be doing ok, if today’s engine run went as well as people are posting on other forums.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: jakspeed on April 08, 2018, 08:06:57 PM

Sorry but looking at the pictures, there is no way that starter motor could possibly be changed in situ.  I would also say that you only replace the suspect part, as there may be faults in other parts of a larger system.  I thought YOU Sam would appreciate that.  All electrical and electronic technicians know that.  What you are suggesting is akin to replacing a broken fan in a domestic boiler by fitting a new boiler.  Sounds like you have little to no idea about electrical fault finding - I would love to be your car mechanic!

As for adjustable spanners - I would have thought all standard RAF Shadow boards would have carried at least 2 different sizes.  That probably means that YOU have used them yourself whilst in Service.  Why don’t you stop back biting and pitch in and volunteer yourself, if you are so concerned?

I, for one, am immensely impressed with what the new team are managing to do - taking out the Rover unit cannot have been easy, even for an experienced team of professionals.  I think the volunteers, led by Taff need praise, rather than criticism from someone who should understand the intricacies of what they have to do.

Be a bit kinder, Sam - they seem to be doing ok, if today’s engine run went as well as people are posting on other forums.

Definitely getting to grips with the English language after your first couple of posts on this forum - how DARE you have a go at Sam  >:( >:( >:( >:(

“I thank you for you coment Mike,  I am sorry for new, but follow sometime.  I hope not problem.  I as well follow site "UKAR". It and me will laugh out loud. You as well?

I think "Sad Sam", some story to tell - yes?

I no wish to offend, is not welcome here?”

And -

“I buy you a beer or too to hear that plan Sad Sam.

You must know things. I would want to hear it possibly?

Return me know?”




Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Paramania on April 08, 2018, 08:22:48 PM
Easy Jakspeed, whoever you are.  Try drinking a bottle of real Vodka and working out which one of the seven languages you speak sounds best at 1am in the morning😂😂🍷🍷

By the way - I wasn’t having a go at Sam, and I am sure he’s capable of answering my points if he sees fit.  This is not a Sam fanpage, this is a Vulcan forum.  Stick to your the facts please.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: smiler on April 08, 2018, 08:25:08 PM
Well someone took it down without having the common decency to inform me of the reason.

If that person has the guts, put it back so that those that care can see and then their own judgements and comments.  OR tell me why I was so out of whack?

Ah, maybe I mentioned the TAFF word????

Taff, in the open, I expected better of you and, I suppose, do most of the remaining supporters either logging or just lurking and listening.

You were once a legend but now..... loyalties?......

How many minutes until this is taken down, comrades?

This is not personal but I fail to square what he is doing with the "volunteers" for the greater good of the Trust

But I've already heard from others that the airport will NOT allow 558 to use the runway i.e. Fast Taxy

Anyone care to correct this view?

I don't know what you are trying to say but I am not a moderator, however I do lurk to see what is written on the forum.

The new team of volunteers are doing an excellent job and they do what I ask, so if any of you have any issues in the way I look after 558 'sorry', its the best I can do!  As for Sam's comments they are not all factually correct and yes I use an adjustable spanner, in fact all of the team did at certain times whilst she was flying (didn't seem to do any harm then).

The aircraft is in good condition and we carried out this years servicing in all conditions and to finish off todays ground runs went well including the functional check of the AAPP.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: planenut on April 09, 2018, 07:22:41 AM
Interesting comments and input from some. Sad to see the digs and jibes. Good to know that you are doing your best Smiler, thanks.

New members are always welcome, but if one was to browse the earlier postings, going way back, one would understand the quality of the Club and forum in the past. There is no need to enter the forum and commence attacking, but a chance to make constructive postings or ask questions.

XH558 is an example of a fantastic design, built for a purpose, and tested. The support for it has been fantastic, through an amazing time, and with an outstanding result in the return to a successful period of flight. The end of that period has led to a stalling of purpose whilst awaiting a satisfactory security of future location and support. We all hope that that future will provide a location which, along with the original aim of providing "education", will honour those who ensured the security of the life we live.

Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: steve w on April 11, 2018, 05:51:56 PM
Well said Planenut.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: minty4371 on April 13, 2018, 05:08:48 PM
Seen in today's Newsletter.
Last Sunday, Taff and our team of volunteer groundcrew brought XH558’s systems back to life in the final phase of winter maintenance ahead of completing full engine ground-running checks. All was reported to be well, including the recently serviced AAPP reported on last week. The day acted as a refresher course, ready for the groundcrew and tour guide volunteers to begin public access tours with XH558 from next month.
Look out for news on the first public engine ground-run date, with full booking details in a newsletter very soon.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Sad Sam on April 14, 2018, 12:52:38 AM
Seen in today's Newsletter.
Last Sunday, Taff and our team of volunteer "groundcrew" brought XH558’s systems back to life in the final phase of winter maintenance ahead of completing full engine ground-running checks. All was reported to be well, including the recently serviced AAPP reported on last week. The day acted as a refresher course, ready for the "groundcrew" and tour guide volunteers to begin public access tours with XH558 from next month.
Look out for news on the first public engine ground-run date, with full booking details in a newsletter very soon.


To quote Bob Geldoff "Give us your money"

Come on folks cough up - those pension plans are not going to top themselves up....
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: Mayfly on April 14, 2018, 09:19:42 AM
Well, to see there will be public access tours starting next month is a good thing, but why does it take so long to organise? 558 has been where she is for months, OK there may not be as much interest over the winters months as the summer, but 655 MaPS seem to mange perfectly well in similar conditions.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: StAthan lecky on April 14, 2018, 10:53:11 AM
I would wager that the "Public Access" will involve an outlay of at least a couple of hundred quid ! well out the reach of your average ex supporter/volunteer !!  :-\

Mike
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: ascot5046 on April 14, 2018, 10:37:55 PM
Still no repudiation of the comment that the airport will not allow fast taxy runs. :-\

Surely someone in "authority" can step up and make a statement.
Title: Re: So that's it then?
Post by: wcg on April 20, 2018, 02:09:59 PM
I know some of you don't like UKAR, but you may be interested in reading some of the recent posts on there ( last page - page 58 )