Vulcan To The Sky - Forums

XH558 Operations => Engineering => Topic started by: Sad Sam on August 09, 2017, 09:46:50 PM

Title: How would you feel?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 09, 2017, 09:46:50 PM
In the glory days, when 558 was a living breathing entity not an afterthought abandoned in a sewage farm, one of the threats used to extract money from the supporters (once the trust had worked out that "give us your money or the engineers will all be sacked" did not work too well) was "Give us your money or 558 will be sold to the United States!"

Given the current situation where the trust appears to be in total melt down (assets abandoned outside with no protection, fire sale of merchandise and spares inventory etc., no tangible progress on either ETNA or the temporary hangar) how would you feel if someone from the other side of the pond purchased 558 and flew her away?

As I see it the trust is a slow motion car crash.  For whatever reason they seem determined to destroy everything they achieved.  Perhaps if they just folded the trust there would have been some sort of penalty payable to the HLF or other creditors so they have decided to try and kill the thing off by suffocation, I know nothing but it seems bizarre to have something so great and then destroy it.  Perhaps this all some sort of brinksmanship with the HLF to persuade them to pay for ETNA, which I was told was paid for two years ago?

How would you feel if 558 was placed on the American F.A.A. register as an experimental aircraft?  She would flown to the States where she would be part of a privately funded collection, flown on the U.S. show scene and bought back over for a summer season once every two or three years.  The well healed (and those of us with a massive bucket list) would be able to go to the States to see our baby and there would be the chance of her coming back to reinvigorate the flagging European airshow scene.

Otherwise she can just stay where she is on the off chance that Roberts master plan comes off.

I am not saying that it could or would happen.  I just wonder how people would feel if it did...
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: dee on August 10, 2017, 07:33:35 AM
I would be ok with that!!
If she was looked after with respect and not just a cash cow to keep them upstairs in wages!!

THE SITUATION SHES IN NOW (SHITE POND AND LEFT TO ROT!!
Beggars belief how this has turned out because of BAD Management!!
Id give money to let her go to the STATES..
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: ascot5046 on August 10, 2017, 07:49:57 AM
Any measure would be better than the current situation. I can't afford to give any more money towards 558, but what is the reality of Sam's suggestion?

Assuming the US did buy her, lock stock and barrel, would the CAA ever give a 1-off permit to fly out of UK airspace?  Previous attempts by Mike Beechy Head to fly his Lightnings out were scuppered and they were dismantled and shipped to Capetown.

Right now, she should at least be displayed in a more prominent position on the airfield within sight of the public, even a "gate guard" would be a more fitting end to her life.

I think its time to place 558 back in the public domain, especially after the vast sums of money raised by said public.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 10, 2017, 08:24:09 AM
I agree with all of the above but how viable is this option over flying her out to a UK airfield ? only the Trust and the CAA know and I doubt the Trust (as in the past) will be forthcoming with any information other than  "Give Us More Money"    >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 10, 2017, 10:01:58 AM
I'd be sad to leave these shores but if it ensured a safe future then that would be a good thing.

I agree that the current situation is sad and worrying, these things have a habit of just dragging on with less and less interest as time goes by and she could easily end up basically abandoned there if money dries up.

I think the problems to be overcome in flying her out to the USA are probably too much but if there were a way of flying her out then why not a short ferry flight to a suitable location in this country, I assume that even if the aircraft were registered in the USA the CAA would still have a say on whether or not she could fly in the UK to allow a departure.

I hoped she would be able to taxi at some point but fear that may never happen for the reasons already discussed on here. I feel the safest way to ensure she is preserved well is a move to an established museum in this country even if it means dismantling her and moving here by road so that she can never be powered up again. Gregg said it couldn't happen but I'm not sure why unless he was thinking that it would see a great loss of face by the Trust and that would stop it.
Concorde G-BBDG was moved from Filton to Brooklands in a similar exercise and more recently VC.10 XV808 to Cosford likewise so it is feasible if the will is there, the will may be the biggest obstacle at present.  Second may be money but are the Club funds still waiting to be handed over - in which case could they be assigned to such a plan rather than just going into the wage pot.

The Trust say that 2017 was to be a hibernation year but will there soon be another big appeal to bring her out of hibernation for 2018, I just worry that this 'we need money urgently' scenario will just keep repeating itself whilst she's at a commercial airport because of the pressures of cost for keeping her both hangared and in ground running condition to meet their requirement on the pipedream of a fast taxi which let's face it will only be available to the chosen few and those with deep pockets - not a good way to use valuable money.

If I had a choice I'd rather donate money to see her dismantled and moved somewhere accessible although I wish that had been thought about before flying ceased. I said previously that I thought Doncaster was a good choice whilst she was flying but wrong for once she stopped. She had to be in airworthy condition to fly anyway so there was no extra maintenance costs involved, now she has to be kept close to flying condition if she is allowed anywhere near the runway. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, foresight should have realised that anyway.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: JACKB on August 10, 2017, 10:09:59 AM
As things stand currently I would rather see 558 flown to the US rather than be stuck on the ground at doncaster where most interest has been lost, maybe as Sam said maybe doncaster was the wrong place for after the final flight! 
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: jakspeed on August 10, 2017, 01:52:21 PM
If you'd have asked me that 2 years ago it would have been a 'No' without much thought.

Now it's a definite 'Yes' because anything is better than the debacle that is going on in front of our very eyes  :'(

The present situation is absolute sacrilege, it's scandalous that 558 and 163 are parked where they are - proof that the Trust are right in the sh1te!

I agree with Sickbag Andy in that I would pay good money to help pay to get her out, whether by road or air.  I'm past caring where - just as long as she's loved and looked after and not used as a Cash Cow to pay a handful of people's wages.

Absolutely DISGUSTED at the Trust's attitude towards 558 AND her loyal supporters.......

So, if the USA was her passport out of this sh1thole then I would be behind it 100%.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 10, 2017, 06:34:15 PM
The trouble is with this thread and the "So That's It" one is that no matter how many people post on this forum and make sensible and passionate pleas regarding the fate of 558 the Trust just carries on doing what they do best which is is to ask for further donations without explaining why they need the funds and TOTALLY ignoring any comments made by current and ex members of the Club and the wider public.I believe that the Trusts mindset is if we (the Trust) just ignore all the posts then they (us) will eventually go away !.Occasionally (very occasionally) Ian Homer will stick his head above the parapet and make the odd comment  (usually in defense of the Trust) and then turn round and claim that he is JUST a contractor when it should be apparent to all that he drives the current business model that generates funds to pay the current employees wages and  clearly must be in touch with Trust members on a routine basis.
Stop treating us like fools Ian,if you are not able to answer simple questions posted on this forum then get one of the Trustees to make a statement addressing all of the issues that are currently doing the rounds on the various threads.

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: vulcanlover on August 11, 2017, 03:36:43 AM
Having lived in Blackpool for 21 years, I know only too well what can happen to Vulcans left outside Airports.

Any chance to save her, GO FOR IT!
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: PhillyJ on August 11, 2017, 08:29:26 AM
Having lived in Blackpool for 21 years, I know only too well what can happen to Vulcans left outside Airports.

Any chance to save her, GO FOR IT!
Crikey, you just come out of hibernation! Is Blackpool that bad ;-)
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 11, 2017, 09:24:26 AM
Having lived in Blackpool for 21 years, I know only too well what can happen to Vulcans left outside Airports.

Any chance to save her, GO FOR IT!
Crikey, you just come out of hibernation! Is Blackpool that bad ;-)

blimey , a voice from the past!  Duxfordian will re-appear on UKAR*E next.

Welcome back Rob.

BTW our old friend Clive (WCG) still one of our all time highest posters is still alive and active on UKAR where he goes under the name of Brevet Cable, he still reads what he can on here apparently. - best wishes clive!
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on August 11, 2017, 02:14:55 PM
As Andy said, I'm still lurking here.
Disappointed that I've been ousted as the top poster here  ;)

Yes, I'm Spartacus....err...I mean Brevet Cable on UKAR, as some on there already know.

For those of you who frequent the UKAR forum, you'll see that the XH558 topic has again been hoofed, which makes it the 4th incarnation to have been deleted unless I'm mistaken.

Despite what some of you may feel, there are a majority of posters on there who do support XH558.....what most of them don't support, though, is the Trust, which now seems to be the case on this forum as well.
( And like others, I'm still trying to work out who 'Neverfuel' and 'Bernarde' are on there )

Like Rob, I've seen what happens to a Vulcan and other aircraft which haven't been properly looked after at an airport ( XM569 at Cardiff ) and it would be a depressing waste if the same were to happen to XH558, especially given the many £millions which have been donated to the various appeals over the years.


Back to lurk-mode.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Gregg on August 11, 2017, 06:27:44 PM
I had no idea you were the irritating welsh bloke over there.  ;D
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: brains_mt on August 11, 2017, 06:59:09 PM
They don't want me on UKAR!! I've tried to contact them several times and in various ways but to no avail! I am actually registered on there just need to know my password >:( Oh Well ;) :)
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 11, 2017, 07:14:59 PM
I wonder how long incarnation 5 will last? I bet neverfuel posts some thoughts to get things going later!

I'm surprised the mods agreed to dump it so quickly after Dan B's dummy throw or was it his decision alone?

your chance to have a guess: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7848.0
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Mayfly on August 11, 2017, 08:15:04 PM
They don't want me on UKAR!! I've tried to contact them several times and in various ways but to no avail! I am actually registered on there just need to know my password >:( Oh Well ;) :)

I take it you have tried to reset your password Jane.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: sickbag_andy on August 12, 2017, 11:21:03 AM

Like Rob, I've seen what happens to a Vulcan and other aircraft which haven't been properly looked after at an airport ( XM569 at Cardiff ) and it would be a depressing waste if the same were to happen to XH558, especially given the many £millions which have been donated to the various appeals over the years.


well that was a very worthwhile post Clive, thanks for coming out of hibernation if only temporarily.  The last line (which I've quoted)  really sums up my feelings and dare I say all of us here and I think that is probably the bottom line for us all.

There always was a worry re what would happen once flying ended and although in an ideal world we would like to have seen her continue flying we have I think accepted that can never happen so safe preservation for a long future is what we must wish for (taxying or not).  I just want some words from the trust that give me full confidence that it will happen.  At the moment there is a perception for me at least that they cannot do that.  i'm sure I am not alone in feeling that and maybe that's why this discussion has snowballed (both here and UKAR for that matter), not to deliberately have a dig at the trust but more out of concern for 558.
FWIW I still think a commercial airport was the right base for flying but not once that finished and I feel that is becoming more apparent as time goes on.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on August 12, 2017, 12:49:18 PM
They don't want me on UKAR!! I've tried to contact them several times and in various ways but to no avail! I am actually registered on there just need to know my password >:( Oh Well ;) :)
Jane, you should have a PM from me regarding this -- The Site Admin ( LN Strike Eagle ) has offered to look into it for you if you E-Mail him.


Clive
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: brains_mt on August 12, 2017, 01:07:57 PM
I've tried everything and several emails to admin to no avail Pam  :(

However I will get i touch with Dan Thank you Clive.

I don't want to get involved in Ukar but sometimes feel I need to post and can't.

Lovely to see some old faces back on here   :D Please keep posting  :D
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on August 12, 2017, 01:10:05 PM
I wonder how long incarnation 5 will last? I bet neverfuel posts some thoughts to get things going later!

I'm surprised the mods agreed to dump it so quickly after Dan B's dummy throw or was it his decision alone?
To be honest, the way it had degenerated into a handbag-swinging free-for-all between a handful of posters, with 'Neverfuel' in particular seeming to want to take on everybody ( both detractors and supporters ), I'm surprised it took this long to get binned....it was getting embarrassing, really.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Mayfly on August 12, 2017, 03:54:13 PM
They crack me up as well as frustrating me. 44 posts so far debating if there should be a 558 thread. They obviously can't stop talking about 558 in any shape or form.


Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on August 12, 2017, 07:49:33 PM
If you ignore the 'I'm not interested' posts ( which makes you wonder why they bothered reading & posting on the topic ) there are still a number of posters who do want to discuss the current issues around XH558, just as it's being discussed on this forum.

As I posted on there, it seems to be the case that the Trust are ignoring and failing to address the concerns of those who support the actual aircraft.

If people stop voicing their concerns on forums & social media, then there's no chance of any change occurring ( not that there looks to be much of a chance of that happening as things stand )

Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 12, 2017, 08:41:39 PM
The problem is the trust are not interested in anyone's opinion.

As far as they are concerned anyone who posts on an internet forum is a half wit and their opinion is not worth the paper it is written on.

As far as the trust are concerned it is their way or no way.

All we can hope is that when the trust goes belly up there is something worth saving.

For what it is worth Jacqui this will not cost you a penny.  The new owner will buy the wreckage from the trust (plus any spares that have not been sold in bobs bargin store) he will employ FAA licensed mechanics to sort the jet and then fly it away.

There will be no "give us your money or 558 is scrapped" type appeals.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 13, 2017, 06:08:43 PM
A quiet Sunday so let mayhem resume on Monday !

 ;D

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Sad Sam on August 19, 2017, 09:49:00 PM
Well the quiet Monday came and went.

Still no replies from the grown ups.

Guess they have reverted to type and are now just ignoring us and hope that we will all get bored and go away....
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on August 20, 2017, 12:54:00 PM
I've tried everything and several emails to admin to no avail Pam  :(

However I will get i touch with Dan Thank you Clive.
Have you tried getting in touch with Dan yet, Jane, as he says he hasn't heard anything for you yet ?

If you've had no joy on the E-Mail address I PM'd you, let me know and I'll PM you his other ( personal, non-UKAR ) E-Mail address.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on August 20, 2017, 01:25:49 PM
Well the quiet Monday came and went.

Still no replies from the grown ups.

Guess they have reverted to type and are now just ignoring us and hope that we will all get bored and go away....
Pretty much my thoughts Sam !what a rubbish line of communication the Trust have adopted,still so long as people continue to be sucked in to donating and spending money with them they will just continue on and ignore our questions and comments,I wouldn't be surprised if they shut the Forum down to finaly silence us !!

 >:(

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on August 20, 2017, 02:41:58 PM
Whaddya mean adopted.......it just seems to be the same old mushrooming ( but with less feeding )
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: dee on August 20, 2017, 04:52:01 PM
Now that Ian the Administrator has left i can imagine they will shut the forum..
Back up plan needed soon me thinks!??
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on August 20, 2017, 05:18:58 PM
Start posting on another forum.....not that it'll make any difference as the Trust will still ignore everyone.
And it says it all that the only person from within 'the management' ( and he's a Trustee rather than one of the Trust ) who openly posts on a forum does so on another one, but none of them will do so on here.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Vulcanatic on September 04, 2017, 05:02:26 PM
I haven't checked in on this forum for a while and I'm quite dismayed to learn that XH558 is apparently left out in the elements?
Yes the VULCAN cash-cow milkers on the Trust should hang their heads in shame but they are all probably hard-nosed businessmen who are incapable of feeling that particular emotion.

I don't know about America, I think any stable country would do as long as the rules on flying such an aircraft aren't as draconian as the UK's and XH558 would be properly stored, properly maintained and crewed by appropriately experienced aviators. Let's face it, most of us are never going to travel abroad to see her fly but it opens up the 'VULCAN In Flight' experience to a whole new audience.

I imagine there must be contractual clauses in place to prevent this aircraft being sold by the Trust outside the UK due to the amount of public monies invested so it would, basically, need the Trust to fold. Any unpaid debtors would theoretically have a chance to take possession of the plane when this occurs.

I'm assuming the Trust has given up on milking a scrap Canberra as well as XH558?

Is there anyone with a high media profile / press contacts who still posts on here? I'm guessing the press might take an interest if approached? What about Martin Withers?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: dee on September 04, 2017, 05:11:04 PM
Well said Chris!!!!
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: jakspeed on September 04, 2017, 05:19:09 PM
Well said Chris!!!!

Wot she said!!!!! (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/clap.gif)(https://emoticons.datahamster.com/clap2.gif)(https://emoticons.datahamster.com/clapping.gif)
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Vulcanatic on September 04, 2017, 06:09:22 PM
I was just curious to see how many snouts are still in the VULCAN trough.

The Vulcan Trust now has only 8 Trustees;
http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=1101948&subid=0 (http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=1101948&subid=0)
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/04478686/VULCAN-TO-THE-SKY-TRUST/companies-house-data (https://companycheck.co.uk/company/04478686/VULCAN-TO-THE-SKY-TRUST/companies-house-data)

The Trust's 2016-2017 financials should be published within the next few months which might make for interesting reading as it will show how much money has come in vs. the small amount we know is going out on actually looking after XH558.

Dr Pleming has live Directorships in the following;
* Vulcan to the Sky Trust
* Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Ltd
* The Vulcan Operating Company Ltd
* The Vulcan Marketing Company Ltd
* The Vulcan Property Management Company Ltd
(And others seemingly not directly related).

Perhaps most of these companies are mainly dormant but I do wonder if the Trust is still making payments to them which are being picked up as 2nd, 3rd, 4th salaries?

I'd suspect just one big snout now in the VULCAN trough as well as a few piglets taking the occasional gulp.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Mayfly on September 04, 2017, 07:53:07 PM
I don't think the Trust has ever had many more than 8 Trustees at one time have they?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Vulcanatic on September 04, 2017, 08:04:25 PM
I don't think the Trust has ever had many more than 8 Trustees at one time have they?
Perhaps not? I just glanced at 3 pages worth of Directors / former Directors and thought they must have needed a big board-room table at some point.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: ascot5046 on September 05, 2017, 02:28:59 PM
BBC Midlands Today are always asking for viewers to write in with stories they feel may be of general public interest.  I did email the Mail but didn't get a bite.

Any one of us could do this, but maybe an Open Letter criticising the trust for failing to uphold their duty to provide a museum after her flying life is over for the public to have access.  Maybe Club ex Co-Chairs would be willing to stand in front of the cameras??

I'm about to cancel the Flying Fund Draw entry in favour of a more deserving charity which ends all my financial contributions to XH558, apart from Founding Guardian, which may as well follow suit.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Vulcanatic on September 06, 2017, 12:43:17 AM
BBC Midlands Today are always asking for viewers to write in with stories they feel may be of general public interest.  I did email the Mail but didn't get a bite.

Any one of us could do this, but maybe an Open Letter criticising the trust for failing to uphold their duty to provide a museum after her flying life is over for the public to have access.  Maybe Club ex Co-Chairs would be willing to stand in front of the cameras??

I'm about to cancel the Flying Fund Draw entry in favour of a more deserving charity which ends all my financial contributions to XH558, apart from Founding Guardian, which may as well follow suit.

Yes, it definitely needs to be someone who knows what they are talking about, is not publicity shy and who has a recognisable profile with XH558' history. There are bound to be opportunities, newspapers & TV channels have 'quiet news days' and keep stories which are not pressing in reserve for such times.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Sad Sam on September 06, 2017, 01:20:16 AM
Time to talk to America I think...
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: ascot5046 on September 07, 2017, 07:49:45 AM
Seems to me that Sam would be a welcome addition to a group willing to engage the media about the state of things, unless he's had to sign the VTST version of the Official Secrets Act.

I don't think it's unreasonable to bring to public attention where things stand at this time, given the millions of squids they/we have given/raised.  The stated aim of the trust, post flying, is to preserve the aircraft for the people in a museum. Despite all the PR bluster, WHAT MUSEUM??????

Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: sickbag_andy on September 07, 2017, 09:36:02 AM
Despite all the PR bluster, WHAT MUSEUM??????

Well the museum could currently be called BITS. Bomber In The..... well you can guess the rest :D
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Vulcanatic on September 08, 2017, 12:10:36 PM
Seems to me that Sam would be a welcome addition to a group willing to engage the media about the state of things, unless he's had to sign the VTST version of the Official Secrets Act.

I don't think it's unreasonable to bring to public attention where things stand at this time, given the millions of squids they/we have given/raised.  The stated aim of the trust, post flying, is to preserve the aircraft for the people in a museum. Despite all the PR bluster, WHAT MUSEUM??????
The last thing I remember reading, it was going to be the centrepiece in a sort of Engineering College?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on September 08, 2017, 04:50:48 PM
Seems to me that Sam would be a welcome addition to a group willing to engage the media about the state of things, unless he's had to sign the VTST version of the Official Secrets Act.

I don't think it's unreasonable to bring to public attention where things stand at this time, given the millions of squids they/we have given/raised.  The stated aim of the trust, post flying, is to preserve the aircraft for the people in a museum. Despite all the PR bluster, WHAT MUSEUM??????
The last thing I remember reading, it was going to be the centrepiece in a sort of Engineering College?
I think that that is now a pipe dream unless of course the engineering that will be studied is sewage and water treatment  :D

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Zero One on September 11, 2017, 07:14:27 PM
Well the quiet Monday came and went.

Still no replies from the grown ups.

Guess they have reverted to type and are now just ignoring us and hope that we will all get bored and go away....
Pretty much my thoughts Sam !what a rubbish line of communication the Trust have adopted,still so long as people continue to be sucked in to donating and spending money with them they will just continue on and ignore our questions and comments,I wouldn't be surprised if they shut the Forum down to finaly silence us !!

 >:(

Mike


 Mike

I seem to remember when they set up the trust, that Mr Edmondson dictated that no member of the Trust employees was to post on any forum including this one, but both Sam and I did ????????
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Zero One on September 11, 2017, 07:16:50 PM
Now that Ian the Administrator has left i can imagine they will shut the forum..
Back up plan needed soon me thinks!??

When did that happen? Why? Anyone know?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Sad Sam on September 11, 2017, 08:44:34 PM
I think We upset him by ridiculing his latest scheme to cover 558 in stickers in order to keep 10 people in a job!
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on September 11, 2017, 09:23:12 PM
I think We upset him by ridiculing his latest scheme to cover 558 in stickers in order to keep 10 people in a job!
He also took exception to being  questioned about his role in the current 558 debacle and would not answer simple questions about the current finances and the number of Trust employees on the payroll stating that he was only a contractor and just following orders ::)

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Zero One on September 12, 2017, 08:27:57 AM
I think We upset him by ridiculing his latest scheme to cover 558 in stickers in order to keep 10 people in a job!
He also took exception to being  questioned about his role in the current 558 debacle and would not answer simple questions about the current finances and the number of Trust employees on the payroll stating that he was only a contractor and just following orders ::)

Mike


That was his idea, might have guessed although I personally would think it's more likely to be Mr Trotter.
As to remaining staff....
Let's think about this?
 
Dr Robert (CEO) part time
Andy Edmondson (eng manager) full time
Mr Trotter (VTSE) part time
1  Finance at Nuneaton ?
1 Admin at Nuneaton ? 
Taff zero hours contract?
Is there anyone else at Robin Hood?

Where are the other reported 4 of 10?

This all I can think of and as I read somewhere their job status.
Question  Is can you count part time and zero hours as employed?

There is a bloke called  Boddington hanging around, but don't know his status

Wasn't there 3 engineers sub contracted to 2Exel in hangar 3 ..... Are they counted as employed?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Flipflopman on September 17, 2017, 09:00:41 PM
Well the quiet Monday came and went.

Still no replies from the grown ups.

Guess they have reverted to type and are now just ignoring us and hope that we will all get bored and go away....
Pretty much my thoughts Sam !what a rubbish line of communication the Trust have adopted,still so long as people continue to be sucked in to donating and spending money with them they will just continue on and ignore our questions and comments,I wouldn't be surprised if they shut the Forum down to finaly silence us !!

 >:(

Mike


 Mike

I seem to remember when they set up the trust, that Mr Edmondson dictated that no member of the Trust employees was to post on any forum including this one, but both Sam and I did ????????


Not really how I recall it Denis?

As you probably remember myself and others were frequent contributors to this and many other forums throughout the restoration and I always did my level best to pass on as much engineering information and progress updates as I physically had the opportunity to.

This was in fact one of the main areas that both Andrew and Robert said they would like me to focus on when offering me a position in the team for the flying phase.


Cheers,
Ron
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Paramania on September 17, 2017, 11:40:56 PM
Well the quiet Monday came and went.

Still no replies from the grown ups.

Guess they have reverted to type and are now just ignoring us and hope that we will all get bored and go away....
Pretty much my thoughts Sam !what a rubbish line of communication the Trust have adopted,still so long as people continue to be sucked in to donating and spending money with them they will just continue on and ignore our questions and comments,I wouldn't be surprised if they shut the Forum down to finaly silence us !!

 >:(

Mike


 Mike

I seem to remember when they set up the trust, that Mr Edmondson dictated that no member of the Trust employees was to post on any forum including this one, but both Sam and I did ????????


Not really how I recall it Denis?

As you probably remember myself and others were frequent contributors to this and many other forums throughout the restoration and I always did my level best to pass on as much engineering information and progress updates as I physically had the opportunity to.

This was in fact one of the main areas that both Andrew and Robert said they would like me to focus on when offering me a position in the team for the flying phase.


Cheers,
Ron
Hi Ron - would you return to 558 engineering if you were invited back?

She could probably do with some qualified engineers around her now the staff have been laid off!
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: brains_mt on September 18, 2017, 10:25:40 AM
Moderator hat on I'm afraid (and personal opinion)

I am more than well aware of how everyone feels about the current situation and although it may not look as if I'm very active I can promise that 558 is a big worry for me and for Malcolm, and I am constantly trying to do something to help.

However can we please keep things civil and constructive on here. Not being, at the very least, civil lowers the level of the Forum. It leaves us open to ridicule and criticism, and will not get us taken seriously and could even speed the close of the Forum. I am pleased we still have it as a platform for the ex-Club and others to air our thoughts but we must not let it become a slanging match or a name calling arena.

I know feelings are running high and there are many angry and frustrated people out there, many too that are suffering a feeling of great loss, and until we see something concrete about the hangar we will still all feel like this. I really hope that we see some movement on it soon and that the plans are passed, and that there is indeed steel ordered and builders ready to go. It is heartbreaking seeing the aircraft that gave so much pleasure to so many thousands, sitting out on the corner of the airfield in all weathers.

We will lose the Forum if the Trust decide they want to stop it. Its a flick of a switch to them but would be a great loss to us.

Meanwhile it's great to see some old friends back on here and that is why we so need this Forum. Its like coming home  ;) :)

Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: brains_mt on September 18, 2017, 10:27:10 AM
Ron!!! It hasn't been the same without Flipflopman  :D
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: CLIFFORD on September 18, 2017, 10:29:12 AM
what Jane said ;)
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: steve w on September 18, 2017, 11:21:56 AM
Hi Ron, used to look forward to your posts!
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on September 18, 2017, 12:42:52 PM
Following comments on UKAR about how non-standard XH558 is with regards all the kit which was stripped out & the fitment on modern avionics, a number of us have said we recall that the plan was to refit all the equipment ( and restore the cockpit to standard ) once it stopped flying.

Firstly, are we correct ?

Secondly, if we are correct, is there any reason why this hasn't been done or at last commenced ( or has it, but not publicised ? )


Edited to add.....
And speaking of UKAR -- Have you got your membership sorted yet, Jane ??
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Mayfly on September 18, 2017, 03:43:37 PM
I distinctly remember being told that the original equipment would go back in 558, tho' I knew it couldn't happen because miles of cabling was removed and cut up. However I'm sure it was meant cosmetically, such as cockpit instruments.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: steve w on September 18, 2017, 04:29:51 PM
Not the most burning question IMO?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: wcg on September 18, 2017, 05:22:13 PM
Nobody's saying it is....doesn't mean it can't be asked though, especially as there are people on here who can answer it.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: steve w on September 18, 2017, 06:28:38 PM
I would imagine that question will be well down the list. Let's get a hangar otherwise what instrumentation she has in her "retirement" is a mute point really? Anyway as I said just my opinion and not meant stir massive debate!  ;)
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Flipflopman on September 18, 2017, 10:58:45 PM
Hi guys,

Blimey, that was a nice welcome back!!  ;D It's good to see so many familiar faces still around!

Paramania,

Unfortunately, my career has taken a different path nowadays, so I'm not really hands on any more and spend my days 'engineering' figures instead  ;D Obviously I still have a great affinity for the jet though and would always give whatever help I could.

Jane!!

Thank you, that's a lovely thing to say.  :D

Clifford, Steve,

Thanks guys, that means a lot.


So, with regard to the cockpit instruments, yes, as far as I recall it was frequently mentioned in Q&As around the time of the restoration that the original cockpit panels and instruments would be retained and refitted "after it's flying life", however, as Mayfly has said I think this was mentioned when the idea was that it would be housed in a museum as a static piece. Time marches on though and plans change, so while physically possible to refit the panels and instruments, they would not be functional without a second extensive rewire to retrofit the old kit, as the cockpit was extensively stripped and rewired for the modern instrument fit.

Leave it as it is! It looks quite funky!  ;D ;D


Cheers,
Flipflopman
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: brains_mt on September 18, 2017, 11:56:00 PM
  :D
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: minty4371 on September 19, 2017, 11:35:23 AM
Leave the cockpit and engineering area as they are.
The general public aren't going to see it.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: steve w on September 19, 2017, 08:32:56 PM
Anyway if project America is to have any legs she will need those avionics...  ;)
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: steve w on September 22, 2017, 12:10:10 PM
A great story and worth a read.

http://www.apres.org.uk/feature/the-story-of-the-shar/
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Zero One on September 25, 2017, 11:19:41 AM

 Mike

I seem to remember when they set up the trust, that Mr Edmondson dictated that no member of the Trust employees was to post on any forum including this one, but both Sam and I did ????????



Not really how I recall it Denis?

As you probably remember myself and others were frequent contributors to this and many other forums throughout the restoration and I always did my level best to pass on as much engineering information and progress updates as I physically had the opportunity to.

This was in fact one of the main areas that both Andrew and Robert said they would like me to focus on when offering me a position in the team for the flying phase.


Cheers,
Ron


Hi Ron
a blast from the past?

Guess  office work catches up with us all in the end...

Now I know you never thought much of me or the job I did but no one else wanted it and it seemed to me you liked to take any opportunity to ridicule or contradict anything I said...  I see nothing has changed!

Maybe it was an edict to the office staff only in case we broadcast something we may have inadvertently over heard, but I know that my confidentiality agreement was very specific on this point

I never was very good at keeping secrets, but I tried.

I know of at least  3 instances, they used this failing to disseminate  things to the hangar unofficially. 

You obviously got special dispensation from the management to post on social media, only on the engineering aspects, which I knew nothing of...

regards
Denis
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Wizzy on October 11, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
Quote
As you probably remember myself and others were frequent contributors to this and many other forums throughout the restoration and I always did my level best to pass on as much engineering information and progress updates as I physically had the opportunity to.

This was in fact one of the main areas that both Andrew and Robert said they would like me to focus on when offering me a position in the team for the flying phase.


Cheers,
Ron

A real blast from the past! Good to hear you're still lurking around Ron.

Your postings were one of the highlights of the old-old-old (is that enough times?) forum! I certainly learned more from them about the technical side of the jet than from anywhere else, and always looked forward to your replies to questions. I even still have some of them squirrelled away in a Notepad document somewhere!

Ah, the old days of the hangar-cams, yellow or silver wheel rims, not to mention the bomb-bay pannier!

In answer to Sam's original question - I would support and contribute to any scheme which meant she could keep flying, even if it was in the USA.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: brains_mt on October 11, 2017, 12:37:22 PM
And don't forget the hangar ghost  :o (I think it turned out to be spiders)
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: steve w on October 11, 2017, 06:49:31 PM
Talking of Sam, where is he?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on October 11, 2017, 07:22:33 PM
Talking of Sam, where is he?

The Trust have probably had him silenced  ;D the money from the "Names under The Wings" was used to hire a hit-man lol

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Tutorboy on October 11, 2017, 09:18:42 PM
I'll try a well known way to find him.  What about a beer at the Jockey in November Sam.  My round.

Bill
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: Sad Sam on December 15, 2017, 10:29:55 PM
Sorry Bill, I'm on the wrong side of the country now.

I've been staying away as it seems some of my comments have not been well received by some people I have great respect for.
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: StAthan lecky on December 16, 2017, 07:29:29 AM
Nice to have you back Sam,the Forum is a poorer place without you  ;)

Mike
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: dee on December 16, 2017, 08:22:47 AM
Welcome back Sam!!xx
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: steve w on December 16, 2017, 06:21:28 PM
You were responsible for starting this thread Sam! Hope all is going OK?
Title: Re: How would you feel?
Post by: jakspeed on December 16, 2017, 06:45:44 PM
Welcome back Sam!!xx

Ditto what my fellow Trollope says - we miss you Sam!!!! X x x