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Messages - sickbag_andy

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Engineering / Re: Positive news re hangar funding in the latest e-mail!
« on: December 11, 2018, 10:02:44 PM »
I thought no news was supposed t be good news but there's really no new news really, just the ongoing slow progress with nothing tangible to reveal. Just carefully worded no doubt to encourage the dedicated ones to part with a bit more money for xmas goods.

amazing though , as soon as I unsubscribe from the newsletters the hangar gets mentioned! - was it something I said?

Engineering / Positive news re hangar funding in the latest e-mail!
« on: July 12, 2018, 05:33:50 PM »

For the past six months, since full planning approval was obtained late in December, the Trust has been in discussions with an investor - who does not wish to be named at this stage - who has offered to fund the majority of the costs of constructing the Trust's New Hangar at Doncaster Sheffield Airport on land that has now been purchased by the Airport. 

In parallel, building contractors have provided costs for the build, and a small amount of preparatory work at the site has been carried out. Having agreed in principle the terms of the investment, our discussions have now moved on to detailed negotiations between sets of solicitors. 

When this process is completed, we will be able to make further announcements including our planned timescale. We do however hope that the hangar will open and have access to XH558 available in 2019. In addition, we are in discussions with others for the remainder of the funding required to turn the new hangar into an exciting visitor attraction for South Yorkshire. 

We are very grateful for the patience of our supporters during this long and involved process, on which by its nature has meant we have been unable to offer frequent, detailed updates. We are confident that this plan will allow us to fulfil our aspirations of honouring the past and inspiring the future, while giving XH558 a fitting, relevant and secure home in the very long term. 

something positive at last!

Engineering / Re: So that's it then?
« on: May 27, 2018, 09:44:56 AM »

I can offer some views on your questions:

many thanks for taking the time to reply Steve, that's the best set of answers I've seen from anybody in a very long time and offers me a good degree of re-assurance and I appreciate that in some parts it's your views rather than an official Trust opinion but you do show a good deal of realism and that bodes well especially with your being close to the core of the operation.  I hope others that read this also share that view,

thanks again

Engineering / Re: So that's it then?
« on: May 16, 2018, 01:47:50 PM »
well you whetted my appetite Clive and I had a look but the original statement has now gone, but your copy here still exists.

I'm amazed that that lot still keep dragging the same subject up and really it's no wonder that I and others refuse to post on there. It's the most unfriendly forum that I've ever been on, aggressive and rude. Dan'O thrives on his antagonism and imflammatory comments with which he leads the way and then his disciples do what disciples do best and follow suit so it's an ever increasing tank full of  insulting comments to almost every aircraft preservation group or airshow organiser in the UK. Last week it was Shuttleworth getting an e-bashing for daring to include the Typhoon, today as well as the regular VTST bashing it's Scampton and so on.

I'm not defending the Trust here, I do feel they have let us down with their decision making but the attacks on Steve Liddle this morning by Rich-whatshisname culminating in 'Oh, really? Sorry, you don't get to take the bat and ball and go home just yet. We're not done' was downright rude as well as aggressive and hardly deserving of a civil reply if indeed any reply at all.

UKAR are not official spokespersons for the enthusiasts but try to behave as if they are but their attitude will (if it hasn't already' lose them all credibility. That in some ways is a shame because a group acting as an 'official' liasion between airshows and the more serious airshow attending public could be a positive thing but who in their right mind is going to listed to them with their attitude for any length of time? A case in point is DanO, he clearly think antagonism is the best approach and upsets people on the way (including me and that is why I stopped posting there, they could clearly do without me although I notice several of my posts on here have then been quoted in full - without my permission)  but sadly he does actually make a few good points and a far more conciliatory attitude might  find him making his points better AND getting better responses.

I'd like to see answers from the trust, we aren't getting enough at the moment - all I keep getting is almost daily e-mails with the latest V-Bay offer and a tenuous story to beef it out and call it a newsletter (I thought they were reducing to one a week to keep down costs) but harping back to the past solves nothing unless it's the past of the last 3 years and why it has all gone so wrong. I agreed with Doncaster as a flying base but unfinanced grand plans at a live airport were the wrong choice for after flight however I'm not sure that the much heralded Bruntingthorpe ticked all the boxes - for me more than Doncaster but not all.
Whether we will ever get all or even some of the relevant answers I don't know but I hope so. The relevant questions forme now are:
1: is there any likelihood of even the currently approved hangar being built i.e. has a backer been found? If not then you can almost certainly rule out ETNA and that was the core argument for staying at Doncaster so with no funds in place an alternative cheaper option should have been sought before flying ended.
2: is the current funding model sustainable in the long run or is 558 on an inevitable collision course with a breaker's cutter at some point? It seems to be based on goodwill plus charging high prices to get up close for the few that can realistcally afford it, hardly the accessible 'people's aircraft' that was offered. Another Vulcan did engine runs for it's supporters on a live airport recently so what is so different with Doncaster? (and it wasn't at £100 per person).
3: was a guarantee that in their then present state that the Trust could do fast taxiing on the Doncaster runway? (I've been told that at present the airport are totally against it because of the risks to the runway operations, i.e the aircraft might break down or similar) The regular fast taxi runs  were another carrot to persuade us the long supporting public that Doncaster was a good choice so when if ever will they materialise AND in a way which are publicly accessible at a reasonable price?

Those for me are the core questions. silicagate and rollgate are way in the past and harping on about them serves no purpose, I'm sure they were dealt with such that a repetition would not occur, if the Trust operate a blame free culture then so be it, that's all in the past now and ultimately the CAA were satisfied so that's all we need to know.


Aviation Waffle / Re: possible ferry flight today?
« on: April 01, 2018, 10:16:34 AM »
Apparently with 2 EE Lightnings as Escort

but only on landing!

Aviation Waffle / possible ferry flight today?
« on: April 01, 2018, 08:47:45 AM »
Is it true? - heard a rumour of a secret ferry flight for 558 to Bruntingthorpe later this morning. They certainly kept that under wraps even moreso than the final flight in 2015.

doubt I could make Doncaster in time but might just make Brunty

2013 left me somewhat distracted by the deaths of both of my parents so displays went on the back burner for some of hte time, my first meet up with 558 that year was at Manston in June the last time I saw a take off, a pic of it for the memories...
Vulcan XH558 take off Manston 22-06-2013 2360 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then the final pass..
Vulcan XH558 departure Manston 22-06-2013 2507 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then 23rd August it was another Clacton air show, bet that woke up the nursing home residents!...
Vulcan xh558 clacton 23-08-2013  6844 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and 2 days later the annual Lt Gransden show
vulcan xh558 Lt Gransden 25-08-2013 8481 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

vulcan xh558 Lt Gransden 25-08-2013  8486 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and that was it for 2013. 2014 went by all too quickly and it was august before I re-newed my acquaintance with 558, again at clacton (what a show 1 Vulcan and 2 Lancasters- too good to miss)
vulcan xh558 clacton 25-08-2014 1929 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

vulcan xh558 over the barges clacton 25-08-2014 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and a power climb!
vulcan xh558 climb out clacton 25-08-2014 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then the spectacle of the Vulcan and 2 Lancasters 3 days later sold out Lt Gransden, I had the foresight to order tickets way in advance but there were many moaning because they hadn't done the same, 558 had the poorer weather but was still spectacular..
4520 vulcan lt gransden by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

no I haven't tilted the camera
4603 vulcan lt gransden by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

I really thought it was going right over in a roll but not quite (they saved that for Grantham!), I put together this sequence of the half roll  for posterity
Kev Rumens' party piece lt gransden 24-8-14 1200px by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and the last encounter of 2014 at Duxford, 13th September, this time accompanied by a pair of Gnats for part of the display
5883 vulcan & gnats by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

5870 vulcan & gnats by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

5904 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then the final year had arrived, we knew it would be so no last minute knife edge appeals to keep her going for another year, first view of 2015 was during the spring final tour at Southend on a murky wet day so I didn't take any photos, it was only a fly by anyway.
June was brighter and I decided to have a 2 day tour of the M40 corridor  with an overnight stay at Bidford upon Avon and then the Throckmorton show on the Saturday (6th), traffic was horrendous but I made it in time (many didn't) and it was n enjoyable show in lovely weather.
2722 vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

in July she made her first of 2 appearances at Old Warden, a superb display and it tempted them to book her again for October for what was to be her final public show, 2 from the july show
7294 vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

7309 vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

15th August and it was either Headcorn or Eastbourne, I opted for the former as the runway position looked good as did the backdrop
1306 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

1317 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and then 2 weeks later, she was at Clacton once again
2640 Vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

last chance to see my name on a plaque?
2631 Vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

558 was due at Lt Gransden on the sunday but unseasonable weather all but wiped out the display including 558 - I thought then I may have seen her flying for the last time :'(

BUT no! Shuttleworth announced that she was booked for the season finale on 4th October. I was in Turkey for my step daughter's wedding when it was announced but throwing my usual caution to the wind I trusted foreign internet and booked tickets for myself and family including my grandson who had been so disappointed at Lt Gransden. It sold out within days but I was in with the family (my membership would have secured one for me but not them!). I had booked tickets for a flypast at Gaydon the same day but passed them onto another club member who made a donation to the cause.
Three from Old Warden..
 7962 vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and they say every picture tells a story..... I had the airband scanner on and heard 558 call up while she was still out of view but 'circling to the west' told me where to look, my grandson was all excited at hearing the pilot and I showed him where to look for 558, he saw it and shouted, excited to the core - everyone nearby looked round ans it spread like wildfire, so that nobody was watching the display of the aircraft actually displaying (circled) - poor pilot.
0634 vulcan effect circled by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and then as she rolled away for the last time in public and with tears in my eyes I uttered those words to my wife that I have never forgotten ' now tell me she's just a f***ing aeroplane!'
8103 vulcan - the last photo by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

a day or two later a final final final tour was announced, in hindsight Grantham was the place to be (if you had powerful binoculars) but I ventured to North Weald on sunday 11th October where they only had 2 or 3 days to arrange parking , marshalling and crowd control. They did well - crowded but not chaotic.

The police were out in force - monitoring it from the air!!!! well planned i thought!
here she was passing through onto the next waypoint somewhere east of London
9021 Vulcan XH558 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

By then I and a few others had got whisper of the penultimate flight to Sywell on the 13th for a display to the raffle winners who would then fly alongside with the blades and one very lucky person in a Spitfire. After the display she did a flypast with the spitfire and blades before spending an hour or two doing circuits over Pitsford reservoir as the second and third batches of blades flights took off before she really did disappear for the last time (for me at least).

best view in the house (or on it)
9196 best view on the airfield - vulcan stops work by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and this really was the last time I was able to see my name on the bomb door plaque!
9272 Vulcan XH558 Sywell 13-10-2015 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

wheels going up and that final power climb about to start...
9248 Vulcan XH558 Sywell 13-10-2015 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and the flypast with the spitfire and blades
9590 vulcan & blades, Sywell 13-10-2015 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and finally off she went into the distance, farewell and thank you
9854 - goodbye and thank you, Sywell 13-10-2015 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

a coupe of weeks later she took to the air one last time but sadly I wasn't there to see it. After the flying at Sywell we did spend time in the bar with a number of club members and also Guy Martin who was keen to know all about the club, a nice catch up for all concerned.

so there we are , a bit of a long story but some wonderful memories and some wonderful friends as a result of the journey.

thanks for looking and thanks to all the new friends I made during this epic adventure.

XH558 Photo and Video Channel / My Vulcan chasing travels 2008 -2015
« on: March 02, 2018, 03:09:04 PM »
It's too cold to go out this week so I've been going through old photos and realised how many different places I visited watching and supporting XH558. I've put them together in chronological order with a bit of a story to go with them.....

I'd been a club member since 2003 and the first time I saw a post restoration flight was 9th June 2008 (I think it was the 5th flight) I'd written a cryptic quiz for the Trust to use (never did) and took that and a £50 prize to Bruntingthorpe on the day of the flight - what good timing ;), anyway it was out on to the airfield where I met amongst others Jane and Malcolm for the first time.

so here was my first sight of the lady that was going to dominate my aviation enthusiasm for the next 8 years, taxiing out for thatflight (in those days I only had a digital compact so excuse the quality)
XH558 brunty 9-6-08, 03 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

I didn't take any during the flight - just watched in awe but here's one of the landing:
XH558 brunty 9-6-08, 09 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then it was Farnborough the same year, one of the take off, everything stopped and it all went quiet as she taxied out, just showed the pull of the aircraft:
vulcanXH558 take off, Farnborough 19-07-2008 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and being pushed back afterwards
vulcan XH558, Farnborough 19-07-2008 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

I only saw her once more in 2008 and that was at duxford and without my camera, then in 2009 funds were dire (not the first or last time) and the Vulcan Scramble was thought up, I was sent to coventry (well volunteered, not as far as the team drove but a 250ish mile round trip for me, some of the supporters that turned up along with the helpers and drivers:
vulcan scramble 22-02-2009 the coventry contingent by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then I manned a club stand at Marshalls, Cambridge and the only flight I saw that year. On to 2010 and I had my first DSLR, now I was in business! This was a missed approach at Marham families day where she stayed overnight and appeared at Lowestoft the next day where I saw hr again
Vulcan XH558 marham 12-8-2010 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

In 2011 my first display was at Southend on 28th May:
Vulcan XH558 appearing over the pier Southend 28-05-2011 9671 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

next day saw 558's last ever appearance at Bruntingthorpe and I did a ground tour if only to see the first of many 'plaque' appeals' on this occasion complete with my name on it, in the bomb bay (in those days you could support one of these appeals and actually get to see your name rather than it being hidden away in a damp field)
Vulcan XH558 bomb bay plaque,  winter service 2011 Bruntingthorpe 29-5-2011 9703 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and then she departed Bruntingthorpe for was was ultimately the last time....
Bruntingthorpe 29-5-2011 XH558 nosewheel up_9871 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

Bruntingthorpe 29-05-2011 XH558 lift off_9873 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

In 2010 I had run a photo competition to raise funds for 558, by mid 2011 the winner's prize still hadn't been arranged so I dipped into my own pocket to save the day and my embarrassment to purchase a canvas for the winner, little did I realise that it would also be the start of a still ongoing friendship with the winner, Andrew Brown! I thought I would try to get it signed by the crews so I thought who can I ask - step forward Sam Evans! Sam said 'don't send it to me, bring it and Andy up to Doncaster and spend a day with us - you both deserve it!' I hummed and harred for 2 seconds and it was on!
so here we are Sam with Andy (and his wife Tara) in front of 558, you could say the theatre of dreams (sorry Dee)
sam,tara&andy  Doncaster 30-07-2011 2276 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr
What I hadn't told Andy was that Sam was going to take him on board - that took him totally by surprise and for once he put his camera down!
some of mine from the day...
Vulcan XH558 front view from stairs Doncaster 30-11-2011 2286 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then he received his canvas from the crew for the day...
Vulcan XH558 photo comp winner canvas presentation Doncaster 30-07-2011 2781 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

the 2011 vulcan team
the Vulcan team line up  Doncaster 30-07-2011 2427 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

Sam with his wires crossed (sorry Sam, couldnt resist it)
sam Doncaster 30-07-2011 2459 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and safely home
XH558 safely home Doncaster 30-07-2011 2743 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then later that year it was back to Doncaster for the club day under 558, remeber those days when the club was always welcome there?
When the club was welcome, VTST club day Doncaster 29-10-2011 7252 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

2012 and another seaside show, this time the long drive to Eastbourne, up on the Beachy Head cliffs on 11th August (first show with another new camera)
round the lighthouse
0711 vulcan over lighthouse by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

my favourite of all my Vulcan photos, looking down at her from the cliffs
0721 plan view vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

spectators all armed with cameras...
0725 bloody photographers by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

and banking away in front of us
0828 vulcan underside slighly inverted by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

still at the seaside, clacton 23rd August
Vulcan XH558 clacton 23-08-2012, wind power and raw power 1772 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

then Duxford on 8th September
Vulcanxh558 over airspace hangar, Duxford 08-09-2012 4382 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

Vulcan xh558 Duxford 08-09-2012 4327 by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

that's episode 1, the second half to follow shortly

Engineering / Re: So that's it then?
« on: March 02, 2018, 07:15:04 AM »
Hope she stays level otherwise we can expect another appeal to repair the damage.
If she is 'sat on her ar*e' then the trust could quickly apply another set of slaques (sticky plaques) to the rear upper surfaces before she settles back on all threes!

Engineering / Re: So that's it then?
« on: February 26, 2018, 08:19:29 PM »
I was just pondering how much money has gone into the Trust since the last flight? In 2016 the income was £550k-ish (I did a summary of the accounts here: ) and as yet there are no 2017 figures available but they made £140k from the 'pin the name on the cash cow' appeal as well as what ever other income kept coming in even if that was half 2016's amount that would mean £275k +140k =£415k so since that last flight the income has totalled around £1 million!

What really upsets me is that for all that money there really is nothing to show for it, no hanger, no prospect of taxi runs, the aircraft stuck out in the weather next to a sewage treatment works (that was the official name for them when I worked for Anglian Water who own that site) providing scant shelter to a Canberra bought using funds which we the public (and club members) had donated to help keep 558 cared for, no prospect of an investor to build a hanger and only a few weeks of cash reserves left.


I wish we could get answers but the Trust are becoming less and less forthcoming with details and only communicate when it's tempting those with money to burn to dip into their pockets.
Please Mr Edmonson & Mr Pleming, eat a bit of humble pie and do something to get her away from there before it's too late.

Aviation Waffle / Re: Douglas C54 Skymaster at North Weald
« on: January 27, 2018, 04:58:51 PM »
nice to see you there today Sam (and Gregg - he can't wait to get his hands dirty!). Such an interesting project and I hope to get down to see you as and when I can, Allan gave us some background as to where you are with things and it looks promising.

good luck with it all

Aviation Waffle / Re: MH370 Search to restart
« on: January 09, 2018, 09:26:16 AM »
Needle in a haystack comes to mind.

A bit like trying to find out what the Trust have done with all our hard earned money :( mission impossible springs to mind !!!!


Maybe hire them to find out on a 'No find, No fee' basis as well ;D

Ways To Raise Funding / Re: Comments on the new hangar plans!
« on: December 24, 2017, 09:01:14 AM »
A question - do the Trust own the site of the proposed hangar or do Doncaster airport own it? and as a follow on from that is that planning permission owned by the site owner or the tenant?

If it's the owner, what's to stop them developing the hangar themselves rather than the Trust albeit funded by a knight in shining armour stuffed with wads of readies? Surely the airport will see that planning approval as a long term asset for expansion and if the Trust don't get their sponsor fairly quickly will the airport say ' you've had enough time and can't demonstrate any ability to build this hangar' and take the development on themselves with no offer to the Trust of medium term use?

Could it be that the airport supported this because they saw an opportunity to get planning approval where the sentimental appeal of the Vulcan being housed was a help in swaying the planners whereas it would have been more difficult without in the knowledge that at best after 10 years the Trust would vacate, the owner would be paying rent to the airport and bringing in business and at worst if the Trust fails then they have a site with approval for development that they can offer on the open market without the attached strings of the Trust, and of course that approval all gained at someone else's cost?

Thanks Clive, I obviously don't know the figures so can't help on that one.

I expect a lot of those who joined the first year were tempted by the various carrots that were dangled and a sense of loyalty, after all a large majority voted to allow the club to disband and together with it's assets/funds be integrated into the Trust's scheme. Equally I expect that some of them will not renew after the first year; some through apathy (not seeing anything much happen that interests them) or disillusionment (carrots fed to the cash cow - or donkey instead), the former is probably normal for any group of this kind where initial enthusiasm quickly wanes amongst a less interested portion of the membership. I'm sure there will be a significant drop in numbers after the first year though

That in itself is concerning as once the stock has all been auctioned off to meet the bills what will be left for the income stream? I suppose the stores will no longer be needed so they can stop renting that and then questions about the need for the staff that man it will undoubtedly come to the fore so some potential savings there but there doesn't appear to be any plan B to even maintain the income levels let alone increase it to sustain the rental of the hangar unless that elusive investor /sponsor comes along and despite the massive public appeal of 558 while she was flying that never materialised so with far less public exposure/appeal what are the chances of that sponsor suddenly appearing now? It's only likely if there's a substantial financial advantage in owning a hangar at Doncaster airport rather than desire to support the Vulcan in my opinion.

well looking at my summary at the start of this topic if the current and next years income matches 2016's £550k ish excluding legacies (who is likely to leave a legacy that is going to be frittered away on wages and a few overheads now?), even if the Trust has slashed the expenditure from the £850k of 2016 by 75% that would only leave around £300k surplus and that's assuming donations have stayed the same (I bet they have dropped).
So unless they get an investor at £300k a year that's going to take 10 years to get the £3 million to build this new interim hangar so surely they might as well wait and go straight to ETNA in 10 years time and save the money.

I really don't see how this hangar is going to happen at all I'm afraid, somebody please convince me I'm wrong.

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