Author Topic: Future mods  (Read 14073 times)

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Offline deeleyt

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Future mods
« on: February 25, 2011, 05:26:24 PM »
Following my moderation  :oops: in another topic. I will re-pose my question.

Future mods

What mods are available to 558, how would they effect the FI and will there be enough engine hours to take up any increase in FI.

I am not interested in this from the current situation but as an airframe with unlimited funding.
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Offline Sad Sam

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 09:04:03 PM »
Hi Deeleyt,

There is one further mod available which will take 558 up to her finite "life" of 137 "FI" (fatigue index)

This will involve riveting two 18 SWG (standard wire gauge) plates over the leading edges just outboard of each of the intakes.

This will be a fairly major mod as to drill the holes in the new plates we will have to remove a lot of structure inside the wings to get to the back of the original holes.

I have done the research on this mod and it is "do-able" though as you would expect with it being 558 it will be expensive.

As to if there are enough engine hours to justify the mod that is another matter we have two engines at Hinckley which have not been in the airframe yet and two which have consumed a fraction of their life.  There are two engines in the airframe which have been installed since the major and two which have been installed during the intervening period, the two which have been installed since the major will probably need to be replaced during next years winter service.

You say you're interested in this as aircraft with unlimited funding, do you have some good news for us (all the numbers come on the lottery perhaps?)
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Offline johnjosh43

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 10:12:38 PM »
Sam - as usual you're a star. The unlimited funding is a valid point. So far 558 has had enough raised to survive which = unlimited funding :-) You can't spend more than it takes I suppose.
I'm waiting to see when the £350k countdown graph appears on the home page.

Please people, don't turn this thread into a funding one.

Is there an opinion how difficult this is compared to the strengthening that was done last Winter ?
+ how many FIs have been used now ? - I expect someone will bonk a link to a previous post on here with the number but I can't remember it.
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Offline Nickolas

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 10:18:44 PM »
This will be a fairly major mod as to drill the holes in the new plates we will have to remove a lot of structure inside the wings to get to the back of the original holes.

Does this mean a cutback in Jaffa cake consumption in order to gain access to this area of the leading edge???
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Offline Sad Sam

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 10:28:46 PM »
The problem with there only being one person per trade is that there is far too much work for just myself.  We will almost certainly have to bring in contract manpower to carry out the mod.

Jaffa cake consumption is not an issue, access is via the leading edge panels (about 8" x 12") and then you will have to crawl down a tunnel about 10 to 12 feet long.  You will be working in a box not much bigger than your coffin.
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Offline Nickolas

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2011, 10:30:24 PM »
MY COFFIN?????
What do you know Sam that I don't???????????
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Offline Sad Sam

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2011, 08:15:58 AM »
Not your coffin specifically Nick (though having met you I have to say that the space available would be significantly smaller than your coffin!)

I use the phrase to demonstrate how little space there will be for the guys to work in.

This should give you some idea of what I am talking about.  The structure that will need to be removed is the leading edge anti-icing ducting which is behind Nathan there is also a rib which will need to be removed which is at the far end of the tunnel (you can not see it in this picture as it is the far side of Nathan)  Bear in mind while looking at this and trying to get an idea of the space available that Nathan is quite a bit smaller than me.

[attachment=0:1m4rqpjg]Mod 093.JPG[/attachment:1m4rqpjg]
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Offline speedy

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2011, 08:42:38 AM »
It's quite interesting to see just what a small opening the human body can get through.  Getting in there is probably very similar to getting in the firebox of a small steam engine, it looks really hard, but as long as you arrange your shoulders and arms in the right manner, you'd be surprised at just how small a gap you can squeeze through.  However, it looks like in this case you need to leave backwards, which could be a bit more interesting!
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Offline Topsy

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2011, 10:55:21 AM »
Quote from: "Sad Sam"
As to if there are enough engine hours to justify the mod that is another matter we have two engines at Hinckley which have not been in the airframe yet and two which have consumed a fraction of their life.  There are two engines in the airframe which have been installed since the major and two which have been installed during the intervening period, the two which have been installed since the major will probably need to be replaced during next years winter service.
Hi Sam,
            Can I ask whether all the engines are serviceable as I remember one was pulled early on for inspection by RR and I never heard whether it was scrapped or brought back. If we only have seven (or less) engines then I suppose flying life will be affected considerably.
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Offline deeleyt

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2011, 12:24:30 PM »
Hi Sam

Firstly I rush to assure you that as of yet I  have not found the Golden egg - but be assured if I did 558 and 655 would get their cut.

I have read all the other topics on this subject and did not feel that I/We had got the full answer. Your clarification of the Leading edge mod is brilliant and I now can relate this to the stress test findings document that I have.

I have spent quite some time on various projects that have required precise work ups but due to things outside my control have not gone ahead so I understand where you guys are comming from.

Is there a definitive source for the Avro Vulcan type modification listing that contains details of the mods, and is it obtainable.

You can definitly rule me out of doing the leading edge mod as I would feel cramped in the Inlet tunnel, besides i'm a bit claustraphobic.
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Offline Sad Sam

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2011, 01:14:19 PM »
Quote from: "Topsy"
Quote from: "Sad Sam"
As to if there are enough engine hours to justify the mod that is another matter we have two engines at Hinckley which have not been in the airframe yet and two which have consumed a fraction of their life.  There are two engines in the airframe which have been installed since the major and two which have been installed during the intervening period, the two which have been installed since the major will probably need to be replaced during next years winter service.
Hi Sam,
            Can I ask whether all the engines are serviceable as I remember one was pulled early on for inspection by RR and I never heard whether it was scrapped or brought back. If we only have seven (or less) engines then I suppose flying life will be affected considerably.

Hi

The two engines which have been removed are in storage at Hinckley.  We have various plans to get them back in the airframe but we are waiting for decisions to be made by other parties.  Afraid I can't be any clearer than that.
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Offline leslie

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 08:50:42 AM »
Are the engines still lifed by the number of cycles used or has some new hightech system taken over?
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Offline Sad Sam

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2011, 08:59:17 PM »
My mistake people finite fatigue is actually 320 FI not 137.  

Not sure where 137 came from.  Fatigue consumed so far is 253.05.
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Offline jangor

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2011, 09:34:22 PM »
how do they calculate the fatigue from one flight to another...... :?:

I believe that there is a meter in the bomb bay, but could someone explain how it works in laymens term please........
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Offline cosford

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Re: Future mods
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2011, 09:51:06 PM »
Yes, I would also be interested in how the fatigue figures are worked out
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