Author Topic: Radar Museum info required please read  (Read 7762 times)

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Offline leslie

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Radar Museum info required please read
« on: December 29, 2011, 08:21:25 PM »
Afternoon all.

The RAF Air Radar Museum in Norfolk has asked if we can help provide any information on this particular bit of equipment they have at the museum.

"Dialect" a bit of equipment supposed to have been developed as a ground-based EW system from part of the Vulcan bomber EW suite". Pictures below.

They have very little info on this equipment, so if anyone has anything, how it worked, what it was designed for, how it worked in regards to the Vulcan or other aircraft? please either email me, post on here, or comment on the Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/RAF-Air-Defence-Radar-Museum/157795494271602

have fun





« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline deeleyt

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 12:30:22 AM »
It looks as though they have taken components of the RWR - Radio Warning Receiver (ARI-18228/1) and integrated them with a rotating antenna.



I can Identify the following (see anotated photo)

Control unit - 17172
Bearing indicator - 17171
Power Unit - 17203
Radio Receiver - 17170

[attachment=1:1atbwbsb]Dialect_a.jpg[/attachment:1atbwbsb]

The antenna could be made up of parts taken from the antennas installed on the top of the Vulcans tail - and installed in what appears to be a rotating head.

[attachment=0:1atbwbsb]17214.jpg[/attachment:1atbwbsb]

On the Vulcan there is one of these at each end of the tail fin assemble - one pointing forwards and the other to the rear.

The unit used the discriminated signal from these 2 antennas to work out from which direction the radiation came from and indicated it on the PPI - An audio out put was available on the intercom and the PRF was quite distinctly heard.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Guest »

Offline Greyhound

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 10:31:34 AM »
Are there any OEM identification tags on it?? (e.g. Feranti / Plessey / GEC etc).
If it's what is now BAE then I kmow a man that may know where to find something about it.
jason
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Guest »
Bournemouth('10,11,12,13), Coventry('10), Abbingdon('11), Kemble(2x'11), Yeovil ('11,13), Royal Woooten Bassett ('11), RHADS ('11), Portsmouth NHD('12), Farnborough ('12), CarFest(S)('12).

Offline leslie

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 12:52:52 PM »
Thanks for the info guys, Greyhound im awaiting an answer from the Museum, any more info from anyone will be very welcome.
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Offline Greyhound

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 08:09:10 PM »
Leslie, just send me a PM if I can help.
j
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Guest »
Bournemouth('10,11,12,13), Coventry('10), Abbingdon('11), Kemble(2x'11), Yeovil ('11,13), Royal Woooten Bassett ('11), RHADS ('11), Portsmouth NHD('12), Farnborough ('12), CarFest(S)('12).

Offline Jimlad

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2012, 10:11:10 PM »
I know it's a bit off topic but the museum ( at site formerly known as RAF Neatishead, now RRH [Remote Radar Head] Neatishead if grey cells are to be trusted), is really interesting. If you are in the area and they have an open day I recommend it - but allow plenty of time.
J
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Offline leslie

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 04:09:08 PM »
Update from the Museum, RE Questionnfrom Greyhound

RAF Air Defence Radar Museum I will have a look next week. The main case may well be a "local" rig (Sealand or somewhere like that may have had a section which did such work) but the main LRU's should have their markings on them. Our Friends newsletter has just been put to bed for this Quarter - no space in this edition but no-one I've spoken to in the radar world thus far can recognise it!
about an hour ago
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Offline leslie

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 03:42:45 PM »
update from the museum

 I have had a chance to look at those LRUs which are easily accessible. Both the Rx and PSU are as suggested Part No 17170 and 17203 respectively (NSN’s 5895-99-8163291 and 6193292). All LRUs are manufactured MSDS Ltd though not sure who p...ut the ground system together (Sealand or even Malvern maybe?). Having looked at the RF Head Assy (5895-99-8163808 but no Part No visible) it looks like it is 17214 with the X-, J- and S-band antennae removed and copper coax feeding from the respective local horn feeds, annotated I and J band into the coax connections thus freed up. This makes sense as we would be looking for airborne radars rather than the lower frequency ground-based radars therefore, no use being made of the longer wavelengths out towards 30cm. All seems to make complete sense and great to know exactly what the system was based on so thank you again to all.
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Offline Fluffy Bunny

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 05:19:38 PM »
It could well have been put together at Sealand if it's cobled together out of aircraft parts and a heath robinson D/Fing kit. Though it may also have been built at RAFSEE Henlow.
Shame I'm not able to look up the contents of that signal referenced on that box, if you could find the signal it'd open doors as to who/what/when/where/why!
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Offline deeleyt

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 10:20:12 PM »
Can we have a close up of the Comms panel and the right hand side of the main panel.

I suspect that the azimuth signal from the antenna array is somehow fed into the antenna returns in such a way that it emulates the discrimintation that would be found between the 2 antennas in a normal installation.

The printer would possibly be used to record the PRF of the detected signal and therfore be used to identifiy the type of radar system generating it, this would allow a possible identification of the aircraft type being tracked.
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Offline g3nhs

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2018, 09:05:10 AM »
We also used Dialect at Saxa Vord in the 80s to assist with identifying incoming Soviet aircraft.

Offline aleckeen

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Re: Radar Museum info required please read
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2018, 11:05:32 PM »
It looks as though they have taken components of the RWR - Radio Warning Receiver (ARI-18228/1) and integrated them with a rotating antenna.



I can Identify the following (see anotated photo)

Control unit - 17172
Bearing indicator - 17171
Power Unit - 17203
Radio Receiver - 17170

[attachment=1:1atbwbsb]<!-- ia1 -->Dialect_a.jpg<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment:1atbwbsb]

The antenna could be made up of parts taken from the antennas installed on the top of the Vulcans tail - and installed in what appears to be a rotating head.

[attachment=0:1atbwbsb]<!-- ia0 -->17214.jpg<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment:1atbwbsb]

On the Vulcan there is one of these at each end of the tail fin assemble - one pointing forwards and the other to the rear.

The unit used the discriminated signal from these 2 antennas to work out from which direction the radiation came from and indicated it on the PPI - An audio out put was available on the intercom and the PRF was quite distinctly heard.