Author Topic: Filling this year's Begging Bowl  (Read 10288 times)

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Offline vulcanlover

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Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« on: October 08, 2012, 06:03:18 AM »
Finding this years funding may not be as impossible as it may seem, and to be honest, I'm surprised nobody's thought of this before.

If we could find a person or a consortium of people who have got the cash to do this, it can be done, and it's pefectly legal.

The person, or group of people agree to 'lend' us £2 million, but put it through the books as a Charitable Donation with Gift Aid.

Once the Gift Aid revenue comes through, pay back the £2 million to the person or persons!

We get more than what's required at the moment, and technically it hasn't cost anyone except the Government!!!
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Offline MrTim

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 07:08:42 AM »
Aside from the fact you'd need to get someone or a group to stump up several million pounds, I think you'll find it would be considered as fraud.
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Offline wcg

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 07:37:54 AM »
From the Govt. website :

Payments that don't qualify for Gift Aid

These include:

    donations of money from a company
    donations in the form of a loan waiver or debt conversion - for example an individual may lend money to your charity or CASC and then, at a later date, agree that it does not have to be paid back - this is not a gift of money it is the waiver of a loan
    gifts made on behalf of other people for example a membership subscription paid on behalf of somebody else - this is a gift of membership from the payer to the member not a gift made to the charity or CASC
    gifts that come with a condition about repayment
    gifts with a condition that it buys goods or services from the donor
    payments received in return for goods or services - these are not gifts - for example payment for admission to a concert, payment for a raffle ticket, an entrance fee for an adventure challenge event etc
    a 'minimum donation' where there is no choice about payment - this is simply a fee for goods or services, it is not a gift
    gifts made using 'charity vouchers' or 'charity cheques'

Nice try , though , Rob.  :D
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Offline scampton61

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 09:38:18 AM »
Quote from: "vulcanlover"
and it's pefectly legal.


Remind me not to ask you for a solicitor  :lol:
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Offline speedy

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 12:52:44 PM »
You have also not taken into account that an individual may only claim a certain amount of gift aid be added to donations made during one financial year, which I believe is based on a person's earnings for that year.

And you scheme is a loan, so it's not a gift, and therefore invalid for gift aid.
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Offline wcg

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 01:30:52 PM »
Yep......you've got to have paid the same or more in tax as the gift aid will come to.
So in the case of a £2mil donation , the donor would have had to have paid at least £500k in tax !!
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Offline MrTim

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 01:36:26 PM »
Quote from: "wcg"
Yep......you've got to have paid the same or more in tax as the gift aid will come to.
So in the case of a £2mil donation , the donor would have had to have paid at least £500k in tax !!
And be happy to partake in a fraudulent scheme :D
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Offline wcg

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 01:48:59 PM »
If you get an MP to do it , would it still be classed as fraud ??  ;)  :P
Mind you , if you spoke to one of the accountants for said MPs or any top businessman/company , they could probably work out a way that would be 'legal' !!  :lol:
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Offline Hedge

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 02:50:05 PM »
Maybe an MP could put it through as "expenses". ;)
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Offline vulcanlover

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 03:29:52 PM »
Well there IS a legal way around this, which is why the government tried to limit the amounts given to charity earlier this year.

I know that there's a Synagogue in the East End of London that is doing very well for itself due to a mutual understanding with a certain Lord.
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Offline dlw

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 08:23:04 PM »
I notice that the funding requirement does not include salaries and general business expenditure. Why?
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Offline MrTim

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 08:52:54 PM »
Presumably that's already covered by regular income.
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Offline wcg

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 09:55:37 PM »
It does state in the newsletter :
"we are currently forecasting a shortfall of some £800,000 over the next twelve months"
Dare I ask.........if the shortfall is £800k , what's the actual required total ??
{ If we're told that , it may put things in perspective }
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Offline sickbag_andy

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 08:41:20 AM »
Quote from: "wcg"
It does state in the newsletter :
"we are currently forecasting a shortfall of some £800,000 over the next twelve months"
Dare I ask.........if the shortfall is £800k , what's the actual required total ??
{ If we're told that , it may put things in perspective }

It says somewhere on here ( I found it the other day) that it requires £2million a year to operate the Vulcan) so my maths worked out that £1.2 million is accounted for (or at least anticipated as income over the next 12 months) hence in my post re £4384 per day in 'chit chat' I pointed out that the shortfall is 40% of total required income - and that assumes the forecast of assured income is correct of course.
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Offline speedy

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Re: Filling this year's Begging Bowl
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2012, 11:30:48 AM »
My take is that £400K in three months is typical expected costs for running the project that takes into account the usual costs of staffing and an average of the expected maintenance costs for the year.  I could be wrong, but I don't think there are £800K extra servicing costs this winter just because the service is a more major one.  The impression I was given was that it simply means that more components than the last few years will need to be removed and inspected/serviced by their respective OEMs.  There's probably a lot more cost involved, but not said £800K, which will be a product of a combination of the extra service costs and any shortfall in funding (and let's face it, autumn winter always seems slow because the jet is tucked up in bed where no-one other than hardened supporters can be inspired to donate when the requirement is belatedly made public- again!  :roll: ).

IMHO, this year's winter service, like every other is not an accident, and will have been planned in minute detail probably as soon as the last one was finsihed.  We should have been selling CLR stuff alongside the other merchandise during shows, or at very least have had the info to hand when thousands asked what was needed to keep her flying.  I'll be doing some more CLRs and the like this year, and I'll wager that most people on the form will too.  Fingers crossed!
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“If anybody ever tells you anything about an aeroplane which is so bloody complicated you can't understand it, take it from me: it's all balls.” — R. J. Mitchell

Government.  If you think the problems they create are bad, you should see their solutions.