Author Topic: 2013 - End of Flight  (Read 48165 times)

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Offline chocaholic6

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 08:04:40 PM »
my hubby said he make sure i see her last flight dont matter where it is hes going to make my 558 model to cheer me up i was like thousands cried my eyes but now ive read its understanding why she will do us all proud next yrxx
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Offline StAthan lecky

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2012, 11:58:51 AM »
Quote from: "wcg"
Quote from: "minty4371"
I didn't see the first ever flight and I won't see the last ever flight :cry:  :cry:  :cry:.
So are you trying for some sort of record as to how many times you can say "I didn't see her fly" or something ??  :roll:
I think that you hold that record !!
 :lol:
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Offline wcg

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2012, 01:31:28 PM »
Unlikely........after all , I'm not the one who's posted "I won't see it"/"I won't be there" type comments in pretty much every topic concerning each individual airshow , nor did I start a topic simply to state how many times I've seen it , and I definitely don't post on the Iconic Forum !!  ;)  :lol:
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Offline Zero One

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2012, 02:41:14 PM »
Quote from: "wcg"
Now the cynics amongst us would say that the recent "Jubilee Flight" was actually a trial run for next year's "Final Flight" !!


Who Me?  :twisted:  :twisted:  :lol:

But does now beg the question,
1] who will be the first to be made redundant
2] how are they going to maintain the aircraft once she is grounded? are they going to pay for the engineering team to stay or recruit  volunteers?
3] And the big one....how are they going to fund Ve3

Incomming :twisted:
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Offline wcg

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2012, 03:14:26 PM »
Denis ;
I suppose a lot would depend on the full proposals for Ve3.
To date { presumably because it's only a "consultation document" at the moment } no costings have been provided nor employee requirements been forthcoming regarding the establishment & upkeep of Ve3.

Regarding your first question.....
If construction of the Ve3 complex goes ahead at D-RHA , will the current Trust office(s) at Hinckley still be required ??
Would they still need both a "Marketing & Events Manager" and a "Press & PR Manager" , or could these positions be rationalised & combined ??
Would any of the pilots/AEOs be retained , and if so would it be on a full-time or part-time basis ??

Part of the Ve3 scheme is to include , quote :
An engineering education centre in which the Vulcan and other inspiring examples of British engineering are used to deliver knowledge through passion and hands-on experience, from craft skills to thermodynamics and project management.
So with reference to your second question , it could be that some / all { or those that want to } of the current engineering staff / ground-crew could be retained as part of this , or possibly as part of the proposed "museum and tourist centre focussing on ‘the engineer as hero’" { To be honest , if XH558 remains at D-RHA , I feel it unlikely that the proposed "fast taxi runs" will be feasible }
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Offline wcg

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2012, 05:12:57 PM »
So.......anyone a member of the PPRuNE Forum ??
Feel like going on there & correcting this piece of garbage.......
"Perhaps if the didnt pay Dr Pleming in excess of £80,000 a year and I beleive the pilots a similar amount (happy to be corrected on that one) they might have more money to fund the aircraft mods etc. It will be a sad loss from the skys.
 :roll:
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Offline Zero One

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2012, 05:48:42 PM »
Quote from: "wcg"
Denis ;
I suppose a lot would depend on the full proposals for Ve3.
To date { presumably because it's only a "consultation document" at the moment } no costings have been provided nor employee requirements been forthcoming regarding the establishment & upkeep of Ve3.

Regarding your first question.....
If construction of the Ve3 complex goes ahead at D-RHA , will the current Trust office(s) at Hinckley still be required ??
Would they still need both a "Marketing & Events Manager" and a "Press & PR Manager" , or could these positions be rationalised & combined ??
Would any of the pilots/AEOs be retained , and if so would it be on a full-time or part-time basis ??..

Exactly my point about the HQ staff...except of course that they would still need somewhere to store the remainder of the 800tons of spares that are  spread between RHA, Hinckley and Bruntingthorpe?

Quote
Part of the Ve3 scheme is to include , quote :
An engineering education centre in which the Vulcan and other inspiring examples of British engineering are used to deliver knowledge through passion and hands-on experience, from craft skills to thermodynamics and project management.
So with reference to your second question , it could be that some / all { or those that want to } of the current engineering staff / ground-crew could be retained as part of this , or possibly as part of the proposed "museum and tourist centre focussing on ‘the engineer as hero’" { To be honest , if XH558 remains at D-RHA , I feel it unlikely that the proposed "fast taxi runs" will be feasible }

The  first "Education Project" didn't work..... Why should this one?

This still dosn't answer question no3..... how the hell are they going to find the £Millions to build this centre?
Plus are RHA's Owners on board with this thing?
Given the latest economic forcasts, there isn't going to be spare cash sloshing around to fund this concept, that is if they expect Industry to stump up the support.
They couldn't raise funding from industry to fly the damn thing, but to ask industry to fund yet another "Jet Dragster".. I just don't see it....where the finance is coming from..
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Offline wcg

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2012, 06:15:04 PM »
Quote
...they would still need somewhere to store the remainder of the 800tons of spares that are  spread between RHA, Hinckley and Bruntingthorpe
Of course , when '558 is no longer airworthy they won't need the 800 tons of spares , will they ??
Especially if '558 remains at RHA & possibly { probably ? } isn't even kept in taxiing condition.
Solution would be to flog-off all un-needed spares , thus raising some much needed funds.

Quote
The  first "Education Project" didn't work..... Why should this one?
Was the first project ever really given a chance ??
From what I've seen posted , it was severely handicapped by the fact that much of the funding which should have gone to it was repeatedly redirected to the general maintenance/annual running costs of '558 instead.

Quote
This still dosn't answer question no3..... how the hell are they going to find the £Millions to build this centre?
Plus are RHA's Owners on board with this thing?
Given the latest economic forcasts, there isn't going to be spare cash sloshing around to fund this concept, that is if they expect Industry to stump up the support.
Given the fact that the Ve3 proposals specifically mention RHA , I'd assume the owners have already been involved in the consultation.
As I said in my post , until ( if ? ) the Ve3 proposal is finalised & funding requirements are forthcoming , we won't know.

Quote
They couldn't raise funding from industry to fly the damn thing, but to ask industry to fund yet another "Jet Dragster".. I just don't see it....where the finance is coming from..
Don't think that will be an issue as I don't see XH558 carrying out fast-taxi runs at RHA.
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Offline Gregg

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2012, 07:30:35 PM »
It would be nice to know the reasons for opting to base Ve3 at Doncaster.
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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2012, 07:47:44 PM »
i'm afraid I still think this year's winter campaign is going to be very tough.

1: it was started too late (maybe to keep private the end of flying news)- we were being promised this wouldn't happen again and when it was apparent that it would it was a case of hang on we will have exciting news to tell you to accompany the announcement of the fund raising

2: it's more than double last years and that was a struggle- even if the first £400k is raised , will people still support it mid season when they start to think - 'why should I bother , i won't be seeing it fly anymore and i'll only help here fly for another week or two', I think there will be a tail off as the end nighs and possibly mid season it will be a case of lack of funds and cutting losses.

3: which comes on to another point, will people still contribute in great amounts to a non flying aircraft to fund VE3 - the uniqueness will no longer be there? I'd say that if the money isnt there for it now then it certainly wont be there in a year's time

4: if the winter campaign only reaches say £300k as last year (and 75% of this year's target) will that be re-directed to VE3? or was it specifically intended for winter service to facilitate at least a start to flying in 2013? I'm afraid I'm sceptical about VE3 for similar reasons to those already expressed and if my donation is likely to be diverted to that then I'm going to hang fire until I'm sure of the outcome - call me tight fisted and cynical but I bet there are hundreds thinking the same.

5: finally - are there any indications of how the first week of the campaign has gone- will we see the Vulcan on the runway meter again (or will it ba a Vulcan heading for a hangar?)

i'm very sad and feel let down because I really think that the lateness of this could have been avoided if the Trust had got their act together, if lack of spare engines was one of the issues then surely this was apparent after the unfortunate incident back in June or have there been more recent failures to bring this about? (I don't think so!) Why wait until it's so late?
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Offline wcg

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2012, 09:00:50 PM »
Quote from: "Gregg"
It would be nice to know the reasons for opting to base Ve3 at Doncaster.
A. Because XH558 is already located there.
B. Because it's not Bruntingthorpe.
 ;)

Quote from: "sickbag_andy"
2: it's more than double last years and that was a struggle
Unless I'm mistaken , it's only a third more than last year { £800k this year compared to £600k last year }

Quote
5: finally - are there any indications of how the first week of the campaign has gone- will we see the Vulcan on the runway meter again (or will it ba a Vulcan heading for a hangar?)
Just noticed there's a new 'graphic' on the home page which answers this !!  :D
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Offline arnk

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2012, 11:33:10 PM »
We still have the two damaged engines to break up and sell off and the possibility of raffling or auctioning fast taxi rides inside her in 2014 to consider as fund raising ideas.  Add in the sale of the unwanted spares as well.  What will happen to all the original bombing / radar equipment that was removed for her return to flight?

Once she is grounded will the restriction by the HLF on a sponsorship paint scheme be lifted?

Will next years displays be all out now to use up all of the remaining FI?  I hope so!  If there was a Trust organised air display emulating the VDF days with touch n'goes then that might raise a significant sum towards her pension fund?  What venue could cope with 100k people?  

Wouldn't St Athan and Bruce's new repair shop be a more logical place for the Ve3 setup?

Al
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Offline westy

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2012, 12:07:55 AM »
When they originally said of a projected 10-or-so year display life, was it assumed the wing mods could be done easily?

Although we would have liked to have seen her go on for at least ten years, I fully understand the reasons and I have been lucky enough to have seen her several times, so I am satisfied...but of course, it will always be very sad when she lands for good.  :cry:

And what of this forum...will it still be worth us being here? Hope so!
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Offline wcg

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2012, 06:58:36 AM »
Quote from: "arnk"
Once she is grounded will the restriction by the HLF on a sponsorship paint scheme be lifted?
Now like you { and no doubt the majority of people on this forum } I've always understood that it was down to HLF restrictions that meant that XH558 couldn't be either painted in 'sponsors colours' or display sponsorship logos on the outside of the airframe.
That was until I noticed the following in this website's FAQ section { underlining by me } :
Why can't XH558 be painted in sponsorship colours?
VTST feels strongly that XH558 should remain in her military colour scheme in recognition of her heritage importance, however if a significant sponsor asked if the colour scheme could be changed then the request would be seriously considered. Re-painting XH558 in a new scheme would be very expensive - estimates are in excess of £400,000 - and we would only agree if there was a commitment to restore XH558 to her original colour scheme at the end of the sponsorship. The Heritage Lottery Fund has indicated that whilst they wish us to maintain XH558 in her military colour scheme, they would permit us to change it as long as the original scheme was restored at a later date.


What I did find on another Forum , however , is that the problem would actually be with the CAA !!
Now it related to a Hunter rather than '558 , but the same principle applies......the owners/operators came up with the idea of painting the tail-fin in a special colour-scheme in celebration of the Queen's Jubilee. When they checked with the CAA , however , they were told that they could do so but would then have to go back to displaying the aircraft's civilian registration code rather than it's military one -- they can only display the military code if the aircraft is kept in an authentic military colour scheme.
So yes , XH558 could have been painted in sponsors colours or displayed sponsorship logos , but then it couldn't be XH558 -- it would have to be G-VLCN.

Quote
Wouldn't St Athan and Bruce's new repair shop be a more logical place for the Ve3 setup?
I couldn't possibly express my opinion on this , could I !!  :twisted:  :lol:
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Offline sickbag_andy

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Re: 2013 - End of Flight
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2012, 07:07:44 AM »
Quote from: "wcg"
Quote
5: finally - are there any indications of how the first week of the campaign has gone- will we see the Vulcan on the runway meter again (or will it ba a Vulcan heading for a hangar?)

Just noticed there's a new 'graphic' on the home page which answers this !!  :D

thanks Clive, 400k by end of October and £8052 to 2 pm yesterday. So that leaves £391948 in 78 days, £5025 a day (and that includes Christmas) ouch!
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