Author Topic: TFR or H2S?  (Read 21213 times)

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Offline djrose007

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TFR or H2S?
« on: November 24, 2013, 09:57:26 AM »
We've fitted more lighting into the XM569 forward fuselage section to light up the radar housing area.

I thought that all B2's were fitted with TFR but I have always noticed that XH558 does not have it, or doesn't have the antenna dome anyway. I doubt if it's been removed so I suspect she never had TFR. Is this correct?

Also, does anyone recognise what is inside the radar housing of XM569 in this photo. Is it TFR or H2S?

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Offline Fonseca

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 01:05:23 PM »
According to Craig's Different Angle book (definitely the go to publication for these type of questions - Christmas hint  :) ) the TFR started appearing in 1966 and was fitted to most aircraft over the following two years. When removed it was replaced by the cap as currently sported by 558. Craig states fourteen were never fitted with TFR and on these aircraft the nose remained smooth. These were XH533 XH534 XH535 XH536 XH537 XH539 XH554 XH555 XH556 XH559 XH563 XL385 XM576 and XM601. It's unknown whether XM604 had the mod before it crashed in January 1968.

And I assume it's the H2S scanner you can see through the hole. It's a substantial piece of kit that fills the radome...
"I've never flown an aircraft yet when I didn't feel a bit short of wing - except the Vulcan".

John Farley.

Offline djrose007

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 04:14:16 PM »
Thanks for that, I've got Craig's book, got it at the 2012 V-Force reunion where he signed it for me.
Never thought of looking in there, but I think you mean about whether 558 had the TFR fitted. I didn't realise some had it fitted and then removed.
I've just thought - Must get the book out because I'm not sure if XM569 was fitted out as a tanker but I think she was. That'll be in there for sure.

Thanks for the response, very helpful.
Cheers
Dave
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Offline Sad Sam

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 06:38:32 PM »
Here you go :- picture of 569 @ Masirah in 1972.

http://www.aero-pics.co.uk/bombers/Vulcan%20B%20Mk.2%20XM569%20Masirah%2016101972%20D12609.htm

TFR pod visible below the probe.

Another pic of it here:-

http://www.aero-pics.co.uk/bombers/Vulcan%20B%20Mk.2%20XM569%20Masirah%2016101972%20D12609.htm

So the pod was still there when the cockpit was separated from the rest of the frame!

Just looked @ your thread in Aviation waffle and you have posted a pic of you jet where you can see the TFR pod.

http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php/topic,6188.0.html

Pay attention at the Back  :o

The bit of kit you can see through the access panel in the front pressure bulkhead is the H2s scanner.  The back of the TFR pod would have been hidden behind the H2s.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 06:54:29 PM by Sad Sam »
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Offline djrose007

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 09:03:19 AM »
Thanks Sam, there's a few photos on my Masirah Remembered website = http://raf-masirah.weebly.com/aircraft-at-masirah.html  = Various photos but including Victors and a couple of Vulcans. I hadn't seen that 1972 one, wonder who took it.

The second link was the same as the first but I suspect it was a picture of when she left the runway at Butterworth  (April 1967) before she was fitted with the TFR in 1965.





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Offline Gully

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 01:18:27 PM »

Never thought of looking in there, but I think you mean about whether 558 had the TFR fitted. I didn't realise some had it fitted and then removed.


Thanks for the response, very helpful.
Cheers
Dave

The TFR was removed from XH558 when she was converted to maritime reconnaissance spec. IIRC.

Gully
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Offline djrose007

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 08:51:18 PM »
Thanks Gully, the plot thickens. I was sure 569 was on Maritime at some time in her life but if she was I wonder why it wasn't removed, or I'm wrong and she wasn't on a Maritime role.
I'll get Craigs book out!
Cheers
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Offline deeleyt

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 10:02:29 PM »
Dave Hi

      TFR was easy to install and remove once the initial upgrade was carried out. Discon the cables and slacken the fixing bolts, to slide the transmitter unit. To replace remove the cap and slide the unit back in on the rails, using the setup jig, then recon the cables. So yes she could have been with out during the maritime phase and had it replaced on its transfer back to 9 Sqn.

Tim
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 10:07:17 PM by deeleyt »

Offline eagle770

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2013, 10:10:54 AM »
Thanks Gully, the plot thickens. I was sure 569 was on Maritime at some time in her life but if she was I wonder why it wasn't removed, or I'm wrong and she wasn't on a Maritime role.
I'll get Craigs book out!
Cheers

She was definitely maritime, I flew her on 27 Sqn   :P
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Offline Fonseca

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 11:52:28 AM »
"I've never flown an aircraft yet when I didn't feel a bit short of wing - except the Vulcan".

John Farley.

Offline djrose007

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 10:22:34 PM »
This is all fascinating, thanks very much folks.

This morning I climbed through the hatch into the nose with the radar. Considering it has not been used since 1983, her last flight into Cardiff Rhoose airport, the radar scanner moved extremely easily when I put my hand on it to steady myself while clambering through the hatch.
Reason for getting in there in the first place? I wish I'd take a photo of all the crud that was in there. Even an empty oil container (1ltr bottle) plus bits of broken wood, metal rods, bits of paper, flakes of paint etc. It was unbelievable. I gathered up a whole carrier bag full of the rubbish.
One consequence of the rubbish accumulation was that the bottom of the nose cone was permanently wet due to being retained by the small rubbish and dust. Should give it a chance to dry out now.

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Offline deeleyt

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2013, 12:38:24 AM »
Well that is somewhere I will not be going any time soon, some 36 years ago that would have not been a problem but now. I always remember a certain amount of damp in there at the best of times.

Tim

Offline 50ltech

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2013, 11:53:48 PM »
Well this has triggered my memory banks so hope I can add a little more.

The Terrain Following Radar (TFR) ARI5959 was, i think,  an American piece of kit which I assume was deemed necessary when the V force was tasked with the low level role.

There was a one week course at RAF Wittering for engineers which I attended in the early 70's to learn the basics. At that time I was on FLES (Flight Line Engineering Squadron) at RAF Scampton prior to squadron based servicing being introduced

There were problems with water ingress in the early days as the pod was modular and not pressurised. A couple of semicircular plates were then fitted to the rear of the pod with the cables going through a central grommet. Sometimes the hardest part of the removal and refitment was aligning a circular rubber seal (26DC1433778)  and its associated wedge that was supposed to prevent water ingress into the radome from around the pod. This was secured with a large jubilee clip.

If the cockpit section you have was never stripped there there may still be the ADD (Airstream Direction Deteactors) Probes (6A1047770) which supplied information to the pod of the angle of attack (nose up/down). They are slotted rotating stubbs about 6 inches long, one on either side of the cabin in the vicinity of the roundel. These were heated and one of the preflight checks was the touch test, as with the pitot head.

More information can be found on page 172, and a comprehensive diagram on page 206, of the Vulcan Story by Tim Laming. These are reproductions from the Aircrew Manual.

With regard to the H2S scanner rotation, if you wish to lock the scanner in the abeam position there is a Azimuth Rotation Locking pin fitted in a stowage position on the Junction Box mounted on the top rear of the scanner frame assembly, it is spring loaded and require a push down and 90 degree turn, sorry can't remember which way, to remove. Then set the scanner amidships and locate a silver cover just above the rotating scanner on the frame, with the cover lifted to one side and the scanner set amidships the pin will slide in and lock the scanner enabling rectification work to be carried out without misaligning the scanner bearing when the AUC(S) was replaced.

Hope this all makes sense and is of some assistance, helps to keep my long term memory in reasonable shape.

As always I am happy to be corrected if my memory is incorrect or incomplete

Offline djrose007

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2013, 07:27:37 PM »
Well, that seemed very comprehensive and very interesting. I'll have a look to see if the ADD probes are there, can't remember seeing anything along those lines, just the two pitot tubes either side. One is missing from when the nose dropped when being cut off but we have a wooden dummy one made, needs fitting and painting.
There is a hole in the bottom of the radome but I suspect this was not standard but drilled there over the past few years to drain rain water. I've drilled a few holes myself, particularly around the bottom of the bomb aimer/observation window where a fair bit of water has been collecting.
Haven't got big enough ladders to reach the entire length of the canopy but am going to speak to Gloucestershire airport about borrowing ladders, or even a cherry picker, so I can reach to use clear silicon sealant in an effort to stop the water getting in all over the place.
Need seals for the opening cockpit windows, the nitrogen in them has long gone and the rubbers aren't looking too good.
 
Thanks for the H2S information, brilliant.
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Offline oggieg

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Re: TFR or H2S?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2014, 07:55:35 PM »
50LTECH was spot on with his reply.You should find 2 circular plates at about 7 o'clock on the roundels which is where the ADDs were.