Author Topic: NEWS LETTER  (Read 21380 times)

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Offline ascot5046

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM »
It doesn't answer anything really, more justifying what is now the status quo.

There may be a few die hard supporters who will cling on to hope, any hope, that this is not just another bundle of words, otherwise known as spin.

I for one would like to know what has happened to the engineering team following their redundancies.  Has Taff really thrown his toys out, spat his dummy and gone to maintain his pension pot while freelancing for the Trust, whenever that is called for.  Or maybe they have been sworn to a non-disclosure agreement? Perhaps it's none of my[our] business, but after all those Jaffa Cakes??..........

I really feel for the guys, not just the engineers but volunteers and all.

XH558 Locked away until 2018 when she will rise again like a phoenix - dream on.

So, so sad.  I hope I'm proved wrong - please

Rick Steer

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2017, 05:30:19 PM »
I for one would like to know what has happened to the engineering team following their redundancies.  Has Taff really thrown his toys out, spat his dummy and gone to maintain his pension pot while freelancing for the Trust, whenever that is called for.  Or maybe they have been sworn to a non-disclosure agreement? Perhaps it's none of my[our] business, but after all those Jaffa Cakes??..........

An update on Facebook, posted by someone who was there on the last Sunday, said that Taff had gone for an interview at Cranfield, and also said that after the way the engineering team had been treated by the trust, they would not be coming back to look after XH558..I can't speculate on the accuracy of those comments, but they were attributed to one of the engineering staff, so one imagines they are reasonably accurate.

If true, then the days of Xh558 being anything other than a static lifeless museum piece  (at best) are well and truly over.

We are therefore at the stage of hoping the comments were untrue.....unless anyone has a contact for Taff and a large supply of Jaffa cakes to bribe him to at least talk to us?

Surely the engineers should have been the last ones to go, them being the ones able to turn the lights out and all that....I cannot believe the trust has let them go, whilst the 2 at the top drawing the largest salaries (even cut down because they are now part time) are still there.  Not sure exactly what they are doing, I can't imagine them wielding oily rags & spanners to keep XH558 in fine fettle though.

In the words of Alan Sugar on this years apprentice "It makes me so angry"
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 05:40:07 PM by Rick Steer »

Offline Mayfly

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2017, 05:47:56 PM »
The official answer to the engineers question on the official FB page stated the Taff and Rick were on a small retainer to be available for any emergency and anti det checks.

Offline eddief

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2017, 10:02:17 PM »
Personally, I think that the latest newsletter did a pretty good job of explaining things.

Now I'm going to rant...

I'm getting a tad p*d off that individuals are being named (for whom I have a LOT of respect) and that their (alleged) actions are apparently open-season for any interpretation that might be placed upon them.  This really isn't fair or necessary.  It also takes an incredibly naïve & simplistic approach to a very complicated set of problems.  If you want easy to grasp, black & white answers then the maintenance & restoration of complex jets is not for you. 

Please show a bit of respect & see the bigger picture.  Things didn't go to plan (and frankly, not through anything I could attribute to VTST or I wouldn't keep on sponsoring them) but the goal-posts moved, there isn't enough money and the only way to preserve 558 & other English heritage jets is to enter & endure a painful recovery period.  I will be firmly strapped in for the ride for as long as I can.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 10:18:19 PM by eddief »
985 posts on last forum - so I get the \'hallowed 1000\' for just 15 on this one (yippee!)

Online steve w

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2017, 09:56:26 AM »
Here here Eddie.

Offline dee

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2017, 12:02:48 PM »
Me too
That huge triangle against the sky like some monstrous angel trailing dark clouds of glory

Offline ascot5046

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2017, 12:31:44 PM »
Maybe we're all a tad p*d off at being the Mushroom Syndrome?

Being one of the smaller benefactors and supporters, it's not always possible to keep us as well informed, being lower down in the food chain, so to speak.  That said, when previous financial crises occurred, the impending loss of the engineering team was well publicised and thankfully resulted in the project continuing.

I do not wish to be disrespectful to anyone involved though am happy to take this on the chin and apologise if needs be. Perhaps the "Peoples Aircraft" tag stretched to the "peoples engineers" as well?  Mea Culpa

But I do question why, when MaPS, CWJ's and the LPG manage to keep their airframes in ground running and taxy condition, was it necessary to attempt to maintain the jet as if it had a Permit to Fly? They are all complex jets maintained by volunteers, some of whom have themselves been volunteers on 558.  Perhaps we could be given the cost of this from last flight to the present?

Moving forward, the amount of work up that will be required to get the jet in a satisfactory condition to allow the commercial airport the confidence to let her use the active runway is not going to be an easy ride.  It will be like starting over from scratch but with a potentially less experienced team. I note that this has been factored into the survival plan.

Rick Steer

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2017, 07:49:37 PM »
It also takes an incredibly naïve & simplistic approach to a very complicated set of problems.  If you want easy to grasp, black & white answers then the maintenance & restoration of complex jets is not for you. 


Eddie, I have never said the maintenance or restoration was ever easy, and my career is also spent managing complex projects and large scale budgets (albeit not in aviation restoration) so I do not underestimate the scale of the problem. If my requests for black and white plans for the current fundraising & future plans have caused offence then I apologise, particularly as you have (and no doubt will continue to) contributed far more than I ever will. 

But....

When things do not go to plan I think it is reasonable for those in charge to be held accountable, particularly when the result is the loss of peoples jobs, including the engineering staff without whom the future is very bleak indeed. When we have been paying our CEO a significant salary, it is reasonable to expect delivery of the aims of the trust in the post flight era. That has not happened, and whilst there have clearly been some surprises along the way, some of the decisions made are very questionable indeed.

Given things have not gone to plan up to now, then having a detailed plan to share with the supporters would surely raise confidence that has been lost in recent weeks? Although the latest news letter was better in terms of information provided, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

For those that still have the confidence to continue to donate, I applaud you. Sadly though, I do not.

Online steve w

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 08:21:23 PM »
The CEO who had the vision and determination to return XH558 to the sky for 8 seasons, 4 more than anticipated. Just want to put that out there.... Oh, and who's salary was small for a business of such turnover and who nearly killed himself running this project.

Eddie - Thank you for all of your support over the years, financial and personal, without positive people like you we (including all the pessimists') would not have enjoyed 8 years of a flying Vulcan.

Rick - What have you done directly to help? You keep saying you have had enough and are going, please do.

I truly love this aircraft and have given my passion and time to provide income for her for 5 years with hands on tour guiding and from the early days as a supporter, there is nobody more aggrieved than myself that I can't keep doing that on a weekly basis. This project has survived much more testing times than this (August 2006? Thank the Lord for Jack Hayward's £500k)

For XH558's sake stop bitching and rally round as we have done countless times in the past.

Please let's do what we can to save the oldest extant Vulcan airframe and the one in the best condition in the world, they all said in 1993 "it will never fly again" in 2017 people are saying in true Frazer style "She's doomed" For goodness sake let's keep her as airworthy as we can, who knows?

Per Ardua ad Astra.


Offline ascot5046

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 09:10:14 PM »
Steve,

Asking what has someone done directly to help is surely a bit below the belt?  There's not a single person here who hasn't done, or  given what they could - or more - to save the project up to now. Some may wanted to give more in terms of time if the airfield was nearer. I was once promised a volunteer engineer position [after suitable training] but it didn't happen for a raft of reasons which I was happy to accept, then and now!   

On the subject of seasons,[8 - 4 more than anticipated?] I was under the apparently misguided impression that the flying would have been for 10 years and then retirement to a museum environment.  Factors that precluded this were withdrawal of design authority support, ongoing lack of funds and, sorry to remind you all, a serious oversight involving silica gel bags in the intakes.

And please, "keep her as airworthy as we can, who knows" the CEO has spoken on this.  End of.

If the powers that be think my contributions to this open forum are unworthy, please let me know and I'll cease to be a Founding Guardian with immediate effect. 

Offline MARKSIX

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2017, 09:18:27 PM »
deeply saddened that those who have put their heart and soul into the project from the start are being  "called to account" as it were . From the top to the volunteers they've given blood , sweat and tears ,and  health scares-- all so we could have that special dream fullfiled . From restoration --which they said couldn't be done  ! to many years of safe flying displays which brought the general public to our cause . Nobody was surprised more than me that we find ourselves in this position , the plans to move to Doncaster made sense when look deep into the future ETNA plans .I do feel the airport hasn't been fair in moving the goalposts from the original plan when moving there --- but that is not the fault of the trust .
I'm with Eddie on this --he too can see the bigger picture .  I was pleased to see the latest newsletter (perhaps could have been aired earlier ) as it went into greater detail about the complexities of how we are where we are. We the club members - soon to be Founding guardians - have been through many dark times from the beginning and we have ALWAYS come out the other side . I understand that some are more than angry about the situation now -- but again that's happened in the past at times , but  I note the donate page is still steadily creeping up , so there is still the love and support there , just feel we all need to regroup and look at the positives . Sure some media attention wouldn't go amiss ..........

Online steve w

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2017, 09:39:23 PM »
Ascot5046 - Why? All I see is below the belt comments about the people that returned the Jet to the sky from people who are not close enough to the project to be experts, armchair warriors.

MARKSIX - Thank you - Keep the faith.

Seriously, we all love the Jet, why stop now trying to take things further???

Rick Steer

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2017, 10:34:44 PM »
Rick - What have you done directly to help? You keep saying you have had enough and are going, please do.

I have been in it from the beginning of the trust, donations running into the thousands over the years...

But we appear to have got to the point where I am not allowed to question the situation that have seen all of the staff laid off, the aircraft placed in storage, no taxi runs, etc, etc ,etc....

Steve, your wish is my command - good luck with alienating others that dare to have a different opinion to your own..

Direct debits now cancelled, profile deleted.

I'm gone....



Offline Mayfly

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2017, 07:31:05 AM »
Please may we have a 'shake of the head' smiley?

How sad.

Offline ascot5046

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Re: NEWS LETTER
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2017, 02:47:10 PM »
Why, Steve? Because no one should be questioned with a "what have you done to help" crack, that's why. And there you go again - calling  people armchair warriors.  There are as many members out here with as much, if not more, knowledge about how to run a project but are too far away or too busy to be directly or indirectly involved.   

If all you can see is below the belt comments, then I'm sorry.  I wrote to Dr. Pleming a year ago expressing my concerns over several of the issues that are being discussed in this forum.  I may not see the "big picture"[though I do see more than you may think] and 12 years' Royal Air Force service in aircraft avionics and flight simulation give me more of an insight into how this complex restoration project ranks as unequalled, not just from an armchair.

And Marksix, no one is above being called to account in a project of this magnitude, whatever their position.  I reiterate, I have the utmost respect for the unstinting devotion to this project of everyone, but the vision would never have materialised without Taff and his band of engineers and volunteers.

Like Rick, my intentions are from the heart and if you can't accept that, I'll be off too.