Author Topic: So that's it then?  (Read 55836 times)

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Offline dee

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2017, 02:47:19 PM »
For those interested in the aims of VTTS as published in the Charities Commission official web site have a look at this (in particular the first page)
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/SIR/ENDS48/0001101948_SIR_20121031_E.PDF

Mike
[/quoteNot much of anything applies to how she is being treated now then!!?
Pity we cant have a complete change of management!!
That huge triangle against the sky like some monstrous angel trailing dark clouds of glory

Offline ascot5046

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2017, 04:21:27 PM »
Maybe not, but we could bring to the attention of the media by an open letter from ex VTTS now FG's condemning the fact that the trust are failing in their stated aim to have retired the jet to a National Museum in perpetuity. 
 
What comeback, if any, can the Charities Commission invoke?

Wasn't FG status to include events specific to us?  Well and truly had then.

Should BBC East Midlands be made aware?

Offline PA28

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2017, 05:52:38 PM »
What is the Trust trying to do as clearly laid out in all the newsletters since February?

Yes it was a shock to have to come out of Hangar 3, but with no other hangarage and an unairworthy aircraft, the options are.......????

Like everyone else, (and as has happened in the past) we keep battling on until the better times are reached again.

A bit more positivity on this site would not go amiss. (Personal opinion..)     

Offline jakspeed

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2017, 06:44:52 PM »
What is the Trust trying to do as clearly laid out in all the newsletters since February?

And they clearly said in previous newsletters that 558 would fast taxi......................

A bit more positivity on this site would not go amiss. (Personal opinion..)     

Having a jest??? What on earth is there to be positive about?? Gimme a clue!!!!!!

Offline StAthan lecky

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2017, 06:55:18 PM »
I personally see nothing that the Trust is doing to be positive about !,it should have been obvious to the Trust that the income stream would plummet after the final flight and the disgraceful way that supporters and even worse the Club Committee was treated over that particular debacle !
Money appeared to be spent like it was going out of fashion with no thought for the future,staffing levels and wages remained far to high for a non flying aircraft and even now the level of paid employees is supposedly ten or so with a wage bill that remains undisclosed by the Trust !
Perhaps a bit of transparency is required here Ian ! before asking for continued funding for this bottomless pit of a project give us a few facts that we can consider and convince us that our money isn't being wasted and please don't quote "Business Confidentiality" at us,please remember that this is a charity and not a private business for the privileged few ! If I can know how much my MP earns and what a Staff Nurse takes home then I should be able to have access to how much the Trust pays it's staff !

A few questions.

1.Why was the Club Committee excluded from the final flight ?
2.Who is currently employed or receiving remuneration of any sort from Trust funds ?
3.How much is the current wage bill including expenses and retainer fees etc ?
4.How cost effective are the current batch of Air Show attendances by the Trust Trailer after deducting costs ?
5.What are the current cash reserves of the Trust ?

Regards

Mike
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 10:06:40 AM by StAthan lecky »
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Offline StAthan lecky

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #80 on: August 02, 2017, 06:56:40 PM »
What is the Trust trying to do as clearly laid out in all the newsletters since February?

And they clearly said in previous newsletters that 558 would fast taxi......................

A bit more positivity on this site would not go amiss. (Personal opinion..)     





Having a jest??? What on earth is there to be positive about?? Gimme a clue!!!!!!

What she said
1000+ Posts and not a Newbie

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Offline ADI

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2017, 09:38:27 PM »
I aint donated since about 6 months after she stopped flying, and wont donate until I get something in return like a taxy run  >:( ???

Offline ADI

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2017, 09:41:59 PM »
Latest Newsletter 'more money please'

link
   
https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/k2xMah88nIW0i3toFT18Vqyi1GPwQVYASPkGmgMK2p4


or read below

 




 
 


 

Your unique opportunity to have your chosen name commemorated
 
 

 
 

   


 


   


ADD YOUR NAME OR THAT OF ANOTHER TO A LIMITED AVAILABILITY COMMEMORATIVE WING PLAQUE TO MARK THE IMMINENT 10th ANNIVERSARY OF FIRST POST-RESTORATION FLIGHT ON 18th OCTOBER



Help mark that occasion nearly 10 years ago when Vulcan XH558 once again returned to the skies.


 

   


It was a day that many thought they would never-ever see. After years of uncertainty, advances and set-backs, but through the determination of a small team supported by thousands of willing donors and the vital assistance of technical partners, Vulcan XH558 took to the skies again, 
14½ years after her last flight in RAF service.



To this day, it is perhaps the most complex and demanding aircraft restoration ever completed – anywhere in the world.




Although sadly no longer able to fly, the project set the benchmark for future restorations. We are determined to celebrate the achievement, as we aim to secure not only XH558’s future, but also the prospect of other heritage aviation projects in the new hangar that will give the aviation community and wider general public access to aircraft like never before - with the exciting vision of a restoration and operating facility that will keep other heritage aircraft not only on display, but airborne and at air displays in the years to come.




Once XH558 is settled in her new home, the Trust will turn its attention to the restoration of Canberra WK163; we are already considering the operation of other loaned aircraft on the display circuit next year.



 

   






From now until October 1st we are offering supporters and

members of the public a unique opportunity – to have their name on

the very wing that lifted XH558 back into the air.

 
 
 



For a £30 donation you will be honoured with a name on XH558’s Wing, together with a named certificate confirming this, which makes it ideal not only as a collectable keepsake, but as a gift to a relative or friend.



From next week, we will post out certificates with your chosen name as a receipt for your donation.
 

   


 


(Picture © John Dibbs)
 
 

 

   


You might also like to dedicate a name in memory to a lost loved one, or a past member of the family who served in the V-Force or other services. Perhaps a family member was employed by Avro or there is another connection with XH558 over her lifetime?



We have allocated two areas of grey on the wing, upon which we will apply small silver letters to the plaques, recognising the ‘Tin’ anniversary of 10 years since that day.
 
 


Only visible upon close viewing, these will not detract from the aesthetic appearance of the aircraft and will remain in place for her lifetime, being replaced if the surfaces are painted in future. Your name could be discreetly marked on the underside of XH558’s Wing, here seen clearly when on a photoshoot in 2015 over The Solent.
 

   


   
 




DONATE HERE TO ADD

YOUR CHOSEN NAME
 
 
 
   
 

   






The plaques will be printed and fitted to XH558 in time for the unveiling on the 10th Anniversary
18th October with a copy of all names also available online on that date.
 
 
 

   


 

   



 
 

This commemorative opportunity was not available during XH558’s flying life, since MoD and CAA regulations on ex-military markings meant we had to keep her external appearance in as near to original RAF markings as possible. The only dispensation to this came in 2010, when on the occasion of her 50th birthday, she was christened
‘The Spirit of Great Britain’ as a mark of respect to all those that willed her back to flight; in recognition of the remarkable place she holds in historic aviation and the excellence of British aeronautical design and engineering.




Your support for this plaque will enable us to continue working to secure the new home for XH558 and a brighter future for heritage aircraft preservation, restoration and operation.





A test plaque with sample names fitted to the aircraft last month to give you a visual idea of how your names will appear.

 
 

   





ONLINE PUBLIC UNVEILING OF THE PLAQUES ON THE ANNIVERSARY – Wednesday 18th October 
 

 
 

   




This opportunity closes at midnight on Sunday October 1st, to allow time for coordination of artwork, printing and installation in time.
 

 


   
 




DONATE HERE TO ADD

YOUR CHOSEN NAME
 
 
 
   
 




Celebrate the achievement!
Join the party by leaving your chosen name as a supporter of XH558.
 

 

   


Can you add Gift Aid? Telling us that we can claim Gift Aid on your donation makes £30 worth £37.50 and does not cost you any extra. If you are a U.K, Tax Payer, we can claim this back on your behalf. Just indicate if we can claim this when making your donation by using the appropriate choice in the listing. Thank you.
 

   



Do please share this email with family and friends, or share this story now with your social media followers. Click the share buttons to the right.
 
 






 
 


 
 
 
 
 
 

   
 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 09:52:51 PM by ADI »

Offline ascot5046

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2017, 11:31:04 PM »
PA28,

As I said earlier, the team at Wellesbourne have achieved with so little money compared with what continues to be asked for to keep a similar non flying tin triangle in so called "fully operational and fit to fly" condition......why? Right now, there is no difference between the airframes as they are both permanently on the ground.  558's star status ended when her wheels finally hit the deck.

Does anyone out here in the real world believe that another [WK163] so-called legend will ever become airborne on joe public's bankroll?

If, and its a big IF, the powers that be had put a case forward to support the return to flight of AVRO Lancaster Just Jane NX611, you might have had far more grass roots favour. Oh and been a bit  more up front and honest with us supporters.

So where is the answer to the BIG question..why was the jet not flown into a Heritage  Museum like what it said in the objectives of the trust.

So many top dogs in denial. And the world's best known and last ever flying Vulcan has been consigned to a corner of a field. But remember MaPS!

Positivity - emperor's new clothes - politikspeak - you couldn't make it up.


Offline sickbag_andy

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2017, 08:51:49 AM »
I always worried that the funding wouldn't last to finance the grand ETNA scheme and that it would all end in tears. There were discussions re the sustainability of future funding here back in 2015: http://www.vulcantothesky.org/smf/index.php?topic=7439.15

PA28 wrote the following: Before such monies are granted, the various backers have to be convinced that the team running it is right and that the business plan is achievable - ensuring success on many fronts.

The Trust is part-way along that road and is aiming high.  Good luck I say
.

I posted the following reply: I would have rather hoped that with 558 now unable to leave Doncaster that the Trust would be all or virtually all of the way along that road otherwise there would be some doubt as to whether the aims can be achieved.

Cast your minds back 8 years or so and all the talk was of simply obtaining a major sponsor (and the thought appeared to be that it would be easy) and all would be rosy and the annual scratching for funds from the public would not be needed, history shows different and the BIG question is, what if those backers cannot be convinced? I hope the Trust's final act is not to sell of 1" squares of 558's wings to settle the debts. I'm afraid I still feel a lower risk option for the final resting place should have been sought.


it really does seem that all those chickens are now coming home to roost, with those sad pics of 558 parked next to the sewage works, having worked in the water industry for 40 years I know what a nice environment they are (some are actually okay but they always smell) so it's almost a case of that old phrase 'always in the s*1t, just the depth that varies - it seems that 558 is now in the deeper extremes.
The fact that the Trust gambled on grounding 558 at Finningley when flying ceased without guaranteed funding for sustainable plans is lamentable, it was obvious that direct debits would soon dry up, the goodwill of the former club membership lost in a new but floundering guardian scheme, yes many of the ex. club members signed up as founder guardians on the basis of promises of special benefits but how many will re-join now those promises have failed AND how is it ever likely to now draw new members to the guardian scheme. It's now out of sight and out of mind except for those few who really care.

As was pointed out earlier in this topic, the heritage document document stated it's aims as:
At the end of its flying life, to retire the aircraft to a National Museum in perpetuity, surely an established sustainable museum would have been a far safer option than a pipedream that is looking more and more of a remote possibility
it also stated:
To provide access to the aircraft for the widest audience; to involve the public in experiencing the aircraft, okay it has been available for the public but only at a very high price for the experience days, - far beyond the pocket of the average joe public, the prices charged all have an extra nought or two on the end compared to other establishments. An easily accessible location NOT on a working commercial airport had far more chance of ever achieving that. Even if taxi runs were ever achieved then they too would not be in the same price bracket as the CWJ days or Wellesbourne wings and wheels but priced as an exclusive day out for the prawn sandwich brigade as that type have often been described. Far from the stated aims in the heritage document 'Summary Information Return 2012', and now totally unachievable as there is no way out of Doncaster (at least not a palatable one), sadly it's best chance of survival is to be dis-assembled and moved to another, sorry a museum albeit with the acceptance that it will only ever be a static exhibit otherwise it could end up rotting it's days away unseen by anyone except those with very deep pockets and a lacking sense of smell.
The further away it is from the public eye the less likely it is that people will continue to support it financially when they see nothing in return, as I said earlier the guardians will slowly stop re-newing  (the take up on the first renewal demands will be interesting but no doubt a glossy spin will be put on it) and all that core support will gradually ebb away. People will simply look for a similar project with better access at a much lower price and possibly closer to their homes - the Vulcan doesn't come to then any more, it can't, they have to go to it and for some that journey even when it's in a hangar on show is just too far. The only thing that is different is the number on the tail and the memories - the Trust can't rely on that for ever.
do I feel let down - yes, do I feel disappointed - partly yes (because of all those memories) but almost no because I feared this could be the outcome without funds in the bank whether or not the hangar remained available.

Just brighten things up a bit here's a memory of far happier days:
0721 plan view vulcan by Andrew Goldsmith, on Flickr

(ignore the date on the watermark, I had to re-do everything when PB decided it didn't like me anymore) ;)

confacimus volatemum

the proud owner of the only Martin Withers signed sickbag of 558 flight vintage IN THE WORLD!

Offline StAthan lecky

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2017, 10:21:52 AM »
If anyone (and I doubt many use this forum now) has concerns about the way that VTTS is operating as a charity this link can be used.

http://forms.charitycommission.gov.uk/raising-concerns/

Mike
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Offline sickbag_andy

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2017, 02:32:43 PM »

And why have they dumped 558 in the middle of a sh1t farm for pitys sake?  >:( >:(

may I confidently predict that the next special offer from the trust newsletter with be Vulcan endorsed compost?
confacimus volatemum

the proud owner of the only Martin Withers signed sickbag of 558 flight vintage IN THE WORLD!

Offline ADI

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #87 on: August 03, 2017, 09:13:37 PM »
Or a piece of scrap Vulcan for a price.

Offline sickbag_andy

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2017, 08:45:11 AM »
Or a piece of scrap Vulcan for a price.

hopefully it will never come to that.

now, back to my working life....
regular readers may remember that i worked in the water industry as a project manager on construction projects, some 'clean/drinking water projects' the term 'clean' used to differentiate it from the other 'dirty' water projects that involved treatment of sewage. I expect you wonder what all this has to do with a Vulcan especially early on a Saturday morning - read on.
With 558 parked next to a sewage works which apparently has several large tanks has anyone looked in detail at what those tanks are? Well in the sewage treatment process we had the water to treat and also the solids which we termed sludge (if you saw it you'd understand why). At this point apologies to anybody reading this over breakfast ;). The water which was separated out was quite easy to treat as long as there wasn't a high element of industrial waste in it but the sludge was the bain of our lives, expensive to treat and expensive to transport around, One way of treating sludge was to heat it up in a big tank called a digester and 'cook it' - still enjoying your breakfast?, which killed off the nasty bugs etc and at the same time generated methane (as I do after a curry but without the heat) and as a result these tanks had to be classified exclusion zones with only permit entry and anything capable of generating a spark left outside, even mobile phones, all to prevent exclusion becoming explosion. If and I don't know for sure if there is or not there is one of these on the site then I'm surprised that running up a hot jet engine very close by is considered a good idea with concentrations of methane around, I suppose the lack of reheat does reduce the risk but this still doesn't seem a good location for doing this sort of thing.

as an aside some of those gasses the process produces (hydrogen sulphide in particular) are quite corrosive in the right concentrations but I'll leave that for another day.
confacimus volatemum

the proud owner of the only Martin Withers signed sickbag of 558 flight vintage IN THE WORLD!

Offline Sad Sam

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Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #89 on: August 06, 2017, 03:48:43 PM »
So the latest masterpiece in marketing has landed.

Am I missing the point but if the names will only be visible upon close viewing (given that the only way you can see the aircraft is by trespassing on the waterboards land - and even then you will still be a couple of hundred feet away the wrong side of a chain link fence)  why bother giving the trust £30.00 for something you will never see?  How much does the trust expect to generate from this latest fundraising wheeze?  What will the money be spent on this time?  My guess is it will go the same way as the £200,000 generated in the spring (as far as I can tell, keeping the management in a job for as long as possible) how exactly will the money "contribute to the trusts work to secure a new home for 558" - I thought that was what the earlier £200,000 was for...  Will this just be a recurring theme trotted out every six months or so until the fictitious new hangar appears?

“Vulcan XH558 can still pay a very important role as an icon of our aeronautical heritage and as a beacon for other heritage aviation projects in a new hangar that will give the aviation community and the wider general public access to aircraft like never before - with the exciting vision of a restoration and operating facility that will keep other heritage aircraft not only on display, but airborne and at air displays in the years to come. Once XH558 is settled in her new home, the Trust will turn its attention to the restoration of Canberra WK163; we are already considering the operation of other loaned aircraft on the display circuit next year,” Robert declared.

The trust is considering the operation of other loaned aircraft next year?  Who is going to look after these loaned aircraft?  There are no engineers left in the employment of the trust.  I understand that all of my authorisations have been kept up to date and I was forced to leave my stamp behind when I was sacked from the company.  I shall be very annoyed if I find out that my authorisations and signature are being used to certify work which I have not carried out.

The trust has kept on three (possibly four) people to look after the webstore which was meant to generate the funds to keep paying the staff.  Given the amount of stock that was shoe horned into Delta court when Hinckley shut I wonder how that is going?  I see there are still over 350 items available and they are now advertising "the biggest ever sale with over 90% reductions"!  Seriously - 90% reductions?  The stuff must have been stupidly over priced in the first place.  Still I'm sure the stock all but flew off the shelves of Bobs bargain basement at the shows - the staff all looked very smart (in yet another "new for this year only" polo shirt) when I saw them at Fairford there were eight people at the serving hatch - shame that six of them were staff!

The car crash continues and I am getting even more angry.  Ian wants positive?  As Jacqui and Mike said "What the hell is there to be positive about?"
I'll never give up on the dream!