Author Topic: So that's it then?  (Read 55442 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wcg

  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3688
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #180 on: September 07, 2017, 12:42:32 PM »
Some bits I missed out on here, but posted on UKAR :
Quote
    This resulted in the Trust making 14 of its staff redundant in February 2017, at a cost of over £110,000.


    The Trust had 19 full-time employees and 5 part-time employees (including 9 aircrew) as at 31 October 2016, plus a number of contractors and consultants.

9 aircrew, with no clarification as to how many of those were still full-time ( but given that only 5 employees were part-timers, that would mean that a minimum of 4 of the aircrew were full-timers )
You have to wonder why they felt the need to retain 9 aircrew for 2016, given that XH558 ceased flying in 2015 !!

And to save anyone looking, Dr Plemming is still shown as the only person who was paid over £60k during that period ( with a rather vague '£70k to £80k' being listed )
Clive..{ South Wales }{ +868 posts on old Forum }
Now an ex-Club Member & no longer contributing to VTST / XH558
UKAR's trollpikken fforwm swyddogol

Offline Mayfly

  • Club Member
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1460
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #181 on: September 07, 2017, 02:14:21 PM »
I'm not sure how they get 9 (did they take on an extra one in the last year for some reason?) and the only full time one that I was aware also doubled as Ops Manager. I know a couple use to do talks etc even after 558 stopped flying but were never full time as far as I am aware.

Offline wcg

  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3688
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #182 on: September 07, 2017, 02:49:10 PM »
 Bill Ramsey replied to my post on UKAR, the pertinent part being :
Quote
with regard to 9 Aircrew still being employed at the end of 2016, I find that hard to fathom. I can categorically tell you that 6 of the seven crew flying the aircraft at the end were 'terminated' at the end of February 2016, leaving only the Chief Pilot/Ops Director. One or 2 ex-Aircrew may have been retained but no idea how that number gets to nine.

As I replied on there, it makes you wonder how the accounts they provided to the Charity Commission ( which were signed-off as being correct by the Trustees & accountants ) say differently.
Clive..{ South Wales }{ +868 posts on old Forum }
Now an ex-Club Member & no longer contributing to VTST / XH558
UKAR's trollpikken fforwm swyddogol

Offline Sad Sam

  • Vulcan Engineer
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 2118
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #183 on: September 07, 2017, 05:51:34 PM »
The return makes interesting reading (or at least the bits that have been quoted do)

The answer to the question about the engineers is that theoretically they still hold the approvals for maintenance and continuing airworthiness management.  What they do not have is anyone who can carry out that work.  Taff has all the ticks in the boxes having done all of the courses but now has a full time job at Waddington.  Rick has the approvals for the airworthiness management but has a full time job at Syerston.  Myself and Ray hold the approvals for the airframe and engine maintenance but we have full time jobs at Waddington and wherever-I-canfindit.  Maybe if the trust asks nicely we will all come running back - but in at least two cases that will result in a divorce court appearance as families have reached the end of their tether.

I suppose the deficit of £214,000 answers the question about what happened to the £200k raised in the spring (though I see that there was a later statement for £100k to cover the redundancies (shame I didn't get a share of that)

Purchases Canberra for £52,000?  I thought it cost £10k (originally it was going to be a freebie as part of the deal to buy the Coventry fleet) It was then going to cost £30k to get GJD to move it to Doncaster.  So either some one can't add up, the goal post were moved or there has been some creative accounting going on.

There is other stuff in there I could comment on but I think I'll just keep it to myself...

I'll never give up on the dream!

Offline Vulcanatic

  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 97
  • Gender: Male
  • Vulcan Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #184 on: September 08, 2017, 12:23:27 PM »
If anyone's interested, the most recent set of accounts have been posted on the Charity Commission website : apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends48/0001101948_AC_20161031_E_C.pdf

Edited to add....
From the accounts :
Quote
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited is the subsidiary of the Trust responsible for engineering activities on the Trust's aircraft, and has employed the Trust's aircraft trade technicians, fitters and quality specialists.
It holds CAA approvals for maintenance and continuing airworthiness management, and has the potential for offering aircraft maintenance services to 3rd parties.

Given the redundancies, is this still correct ?

Quote
There is a charge over the aircraft in favour of the National Heritage Memorial Fund in the amount of £427,000 reducing on a straight line basis until 2085.

Quote
Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Ltd (“VTSE”) is the wholly-owned retail trading subsidiary of VTST, and is managed by Andrew Edmondson as its lead Director. VTSE covenants its taxable profits to VTST under the Gift Aid scheme
....
The Vulcan Property Management Company Ltd (“VPMC”) was incorporated on 21 December 2015, and was set up to manage the tenant-occupied hangar space, offices and conference rooms available as the result of the Trust taking over the lease of Hangar 3 at DSA at the beginning of January 2016 from Directions Finningley CIC.
The Trust held the head lease for the 2016 calendar year, and sublet the space not required by the Trust to VPMC, which then licences space to a number of tenants.
Andrew Edmondson is the lead Director for VPMC.
VPMC now provides services to the current Lessee of Hangar 3.
.....
The Vulcan Operating Company Ltd (“VOC”) has been in existence as a dormant company since 1999, but was changed to an active company in first quarter of 2016.
The VOC is the engineering arm of the Trust, and holds the approvals from the Civil Aviation Authority for servicing and airworthiness management for non-EASA aircraft.
Its goal is to generate profits from the sale of its services to other organisations in the business of restoring, conserving or operating heritage aircraft.
Its lead Director is Andrew Edmondson
Quote
The charity’s deficit for the year was £214,510 (2015: surplus £121,193).
Quote
Wages and salaries : £772,282
Quote
( under 'Purchases' ) Canberra : £51,826
Quote
Purchase invoices for business services have been received from Greenways Business Services amounting to £36,774 (2015: £17,402).
This is a partnership where Michael Trotter, director of Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Limited, is a partner

If fraudulent statements are being made then this could, of course, ultimately become a Police matter.

There could be a formal complaint to the Charities Commission, effectively it appears as though the core assets of the Trust are being looted and currently the sole purpose of the Trust's activities is to pay the salary of Trustee(s).

Such a complaint should undoubtedly emanate from former volunteers and others closely associated with XH558 to be plausible. I should think this is the way to go.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/complaints-about-charities/complaints-about-charities
Chris

Offline SteveL

  • phpBB Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #185 on: September 08, 2017, 01:06:11 PM »
.....and currently the sole purpose of the Trust's activities is to pay the salary of Trustee(s).

Just be clear, the Trustees are volunteers and are not paid a salary.

Offline Vulcanatic

  • Regular User
  • *****
  • Posts: 97
  • Gender: Male
  • Vulcan Fanatic
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #186 on: September 08, 2017, 01:36:12 PM »
.....and currently the sole purpose of the Trust's activities is to pay the salary of Trustee(s).

Just be clear, the Trustees are volunteers and are not paid a salary.

Fair comment, as someone who's never been directly involved with The Trust or any of the multitude of companies surrounding it I'm still confused by the many names and roles. I can see now that Pleming stood down as a Director of The Trust in 2009 but is still Company Secretary. Directorship presumably equating with being a Trustee. The principle's the same, it seems as if the Butler's selling off the family silver to pay the Butler?
Chris

Offline wcg

  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 3688
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #187 on: September 08, 2017, 02:02:25 PM »
You have 'the Trust', which is merely an abbreviated way of referring to the Vulcan To The Sky Trust ( VTST )
Over them you have the Trustees, who are unpaid volunteers who have nothing whatsoever to do with the day-to day running & operation of VTST or XH558.
An explanation of what Trustees do can be found here : https://www.gov.uk/guidance/charity-trustee-whats-involved
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 02:03:59 PM by wcg »
Clive..{ South Wales }{ +868 posts on old Forum }
Now an ex-Club Member & no longer contributing to VTST / XH558
UKAR's trollpikken fforwm swyddogol

Offline SteveL

  • phpBB Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #188 on: September 08, 2017, 02:20:40 PM »
Dr Pleming was (in recent years) the Chief Executive of VTTST (the charity) and company secretary. As such, he was an employee who reported to the Board of Trustees. However, as you may be aware as part of the downsizing and leading from the front, Robert made his own role redundant. He now provides CEO services on a consultancy basis. The Trustees are composed of a group of unremunerated volunteers who are legally responsible for the oversight and strategy of the charity. Sometimes the board meetings are carried out by conference call, so not only do the trustees do it in their own time, they have to bring their own coffee and biscuits.

VTTST has a number of wholly owned subsidiary companies (as opposed to charities) that carry out particular functions, such as engineering and property management. This is a fairly common model and (believe it or not) simplifies things and makes them more efficient. The directors of those companies are selected from appropriate members of the executive.

Clear as mud!

Offline StAthan lecky

  • Club Member
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #189 on: September 08, 2017, 04:47:33 PM »
So,to cut to the chase Steve what is your take on the current situation regarding the long term future of 558? will the much vaunted hanger ever be built?,how long will 558 be sat outside slowly rotting away and what is the current wages bill of those still employed by the Trust and in what capacity are they employed ?

Mike
1000+ Posts and not a Newbie

Freddie Mercury and Queen Will Live Forever

Another "Kind Of Magic"

Offline Zero One

  • Club Member
  • Expert User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1676
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #190 on: September 11, 2017, 08:20:44 PM »
Now the engines have been run there is no inhibiting oil in the fuel system.  The inhibiting oil prevents the seals in the fuel system from rotting

That does sound a bit of a worry but how do all the other preserved aircraft at places like Bruntingthorpe and Elvington get on. Do they do regular anti-det runs on them. If they do then they dont give much publicty to them and would have thought they could attract a few extra visitors if the public were told they were happening.

Andy
Regards anti-det runs at Bruntingthorpe we try to run engines and systems every 16 days unfortunately we can't advertise them as visitors would not be insured only us volunteers are covered.

Quote

 I do worry that 558 is going to continually lurch from one problem (dont like to use the word crisis) and sooner or later the support will dry up. Shame there arent any remaining club funs that can be used to protect her but l assume even if they havent been finally handed over yet they will only go on wages when they finally do reach the trust. I do wonder why they need to retain several full time staff members now, other groups dont  operate on that model and are successful in thier aspirations.

Ive said it before and l will say it again, lf only the vote hadnt been for integration but association we would be in a much stronger position to give the right kind of selective help.

Totally agree with this sentiment I always said and i didn't vote for integration biggest mistake we ever made
Buccaneer XX900 Crew Chief and Brunty Bears keeper

Offline eddief

  • Club Member
  • Serious User
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #191 on: September 11, 2017, 09:43:46 PM »
My company has invested significantly more money in 558 than any other entity.  We love her & want to see the whole story played out to a happy ending.  But I appreciate the journey to that place is beyond the imagination & trust of some - just like the return to flight was I suppose..?  And things happened along the way that did not go to plan - but that's also rather 'normal' in the real world.  Get used to it - life is not a rehearsal: Think fast & do the right thing.

I do not like reading these threads but I rather need to - so I can see what flack might be in waiting & also keep cross-checking my own sense of reality.

I think there is a good chance that the hangar will happen & things will turn for the better (which is why we are still supporting the project) but I honestly can't say that is a certainty. 

But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.
985 posts on last forum - so I get the \'hallowed 1000\' for just 15 on this one (yippee!)

Offline Gregg

  • Volunteer Group
  • Expert User
  • *
  • Posts: 2082
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #192 on: September 11, 2017, 10:31:38 PM »
My company has invested significantly more money in 558 than any other entity.  We love her & want to see the whole story played out to a happy ending.  But I appreciate the journey to that place is beyond the imagination & trust of some - just like the return to flight was I suppose..?  And things happened along the way that did not go to plan - but that's also rather 'normal' in the real world.  Get used to it - life is not a rehearsal: Think fast & do the right thing.

I do not like reading these threads but I rather need to - so I can see what flack might be in waiting & also keep cross-checking my own sense of reality.

I think there is a good chance that the hangar will happen & things will turn for the better (which is why we are still supporting the project) but I honestly can't say that is a certainty. 

But meanwhile, if anybody wants to start throwing toys around at 'names associated with the Vulcan' then how about you bring ME into it.  I'm seriously fed up with watching some decent folk getting kicked about by people who have no idea at all what they really do (and would I be paying for them to do that if I thought they were all just using the cash to prop up their holidays & latest cars - what REALLY!?)  But I can't really speak up on their behalf so at least, if I get a personal attack then I can start punching back.

You're a bit short..

It's all I've got.
Hold a chicken in the air stick a deck chair up your nose, buy a jumbo jet and then bury all your clothes..........\":D\"

Offline eddief

  • Club Member
  • Serious User
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #193 on: September 11, 2017, 11:28:15 PM »
Um.. hang on..  Got it!

Well, you're a bit tall then..!  :D
985 posts on last forum - so I get the \'hallowed 1000\' for just 15 on this one (yippee!)

Offline eddief

  • Club Member
  • Serious User
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
Re: So that's it then?
« Reply #194 on: September 11, 2017, 11:29:32 PM »
Oooh!  And you have a slight Midlands accent.  Have at you sir!!!
985 posts on last forum - so I get the \'hallowed 1000\' for just 15 on this one (yippee!)